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Arcana 3D Print

TsiiiTsiii
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in General Discussion
A follow up to my previous Neamhain Print: http://forums.vindictus.nexon.net/discussion/14604/neamhain-3d-print




Printed with Hatchbox PLA white on a Ultibots D300VS.

Not sure what's in store next. I've figured out how to do custom player models, so that will be fun!
AriaGodspellWelhonBabyDaniGhengisJohnTheDazzlingOrder5LoLoBootyRhapsodyOfFire

Comments

  • WelhonWelhon
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    That's really cool +yes
  • GhengisJohnGhengisJohn
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    Next succubus then?
  • TsiiiTsiii
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    The next model is subject to change. I'll either do a custom player model or succubus, or maybe a monster. It's a toss up at the moment as I haven't really decided yet.
  • IngkellsIngkells
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    s1 glas would be a good one. or if you wanna take it up a notch, you could make entire dioramas, like all the heroes together, or a kraken in a bottle. or with flying bosses like elch or sig, you could crash them with a ballista/hemdrill, while those things are actually holding them up.
  • Order5Order5
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    Wenshardt...
    Nevermind, the hairy legs could pose a problem.
  • LoLoBootyLoLoBooty
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    As someone who's never done 3D printing I have two questions:
    1. Why is it necessary to print the legs separate from the body?
    2.Do any 3D Printers also paint an item?
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited August 16, 2018
    LoLoBooty wrote: »
    As someone who's never done 3D printing I have two questions:
    1. Why is it necessary to print the legs separate from the body?
    2.Do any 3D Printers also paint an item?

    1. Because 3D printers can't print into the air (it's the case with some concave parts), so you'll have to print the convex parts separately, or in the OP's case perhaps it's done to keep it in position (not to make it fall over because of the heavier parts)
    2. It's possible with RGB/CMYK printers
  • TsiiiTsiii
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    1) I separate the legs from the body out of preference. While my printer has enough volume to print up to 17 inches tall, I am using a small z-step size (0.15mm) , and my layers are set to overlap each other. (I'm trying to hide layer lines as much as possible) As the model gets taller and taller, it becomes less and less stable, and the contact the nozzle makes with the print shakes the print more the taller it gets. Usually this isn't an issue for most prints, but since I'm trying to retain as much detail as possible, I want as much stability, and thus detail, as I can get.

    The difference between printing the model as one piece versus two halves is pretty much negligible from a distance, but from a post processing standpoint, it means less sanding and smoothing on my part, and when you really get close to the model, you can notice that the details are finer with the split print. I'm sure there are ways for me to work around this, but I am content printing them separately. After all, there's a lot less filament loss on a failed half print versus a failed fullsize print. There's also a lot less support structure used if you split the print properly.

    2) There are colored filaments, but you would need multiple extruders, and the colors are usually not going to match what you want. There is something called a diamond hotend which mixes filaments, but I have no personal experience with it.
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited August 16, 2018
    Tsiii wrote: »
    2) There are colored filaments, but you would need multiple extruders, and the colors are usually not going to match what you want. There is something called a diamond hotend which mixes filaments, but I have no personal experience with it.

    I'm not an expert with 3D printers, but i'm curious how they clear the mixer tank with that diamond hotend on each color change or does it pre-fill multiple tanks with the mixed colors that are connected to separate nozzles? Because in that case you can only use a limited number of colors, perhaps that's why they only make toys with colored 3D printers, because they have only 3 or 4 different colors in total. I've only worked with industrial painting robotic arms that could use one tank at once, so i had to flush out the system on each color change, it took about 5 minutes, but even with separate hose systems it would only just eliminate the flushing procedure. I'm really curious whether they invented a working color mixing method.
  • TsiiiTsiii
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    Tsiii wrote: »
    2) There are colored filaments, but you would need multiple extruders, and the colors are usually not going to match what you want. There is something called a diamond hotend which mixes filaments, but I have no personal experience with it.

    I'm not an expert with 3D printers, but i'm curious how they clear the mixer tank with that diamond hotend on each color change or does it pre-fill multiple tanks with the mixed colors that are connected to separate nozzles? Because in that case you can only use a limited number of colors, perhaps that's why they only make toys with colored 3D printers, because they have only 3 or 4 different colors in total. I've only worked with industrial painting robotic arms that could use one tank at once, so i had to flush out the system on each color change, it took about 5 minutes, but even with separate hose systems it would only just eliminate the flushing procedure. I'm really curious whether they invented a working color mixing method.

    I do not own a diamond printer head, so some of this is my own conjecture.

    The diamond hot end is still filament based, so that means you still need the three base colors to create the spectrum. The "tank" is a sort of reservoir in the nozzle itself, so when molten filament is pushed into it, that's where the mixing happens. The color itself is controlled by how much of each color is pushed into the chamber. Because the mixing chamber is as small as possible, it makes color changes as fast as possible. Now, this doesn't mean that it is perfect, as there will always be impurities, and the best results would probably be if you ran a purge line when you switched colors. (A purge line is basically a line of filament extruded off to the side of the print to clear the nozzle). I cannot vouch for the quality of the colors the head is able to produce, but the results they post seem pretty good. This is, of course, with more basic color combinations like bright blues or oranges and such. I haven't seen any examples of skin tones for instance.
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited August 16, 2018
    Tsiii wrote: »
    I do not own a diamond printer head, so some of this is my own conjecture.

    The diamond hot end is still filament based, so that means you still need the three base colors to create the spectrum. The "tank" is a sort of reservoir in the nozzle itself, so when molten filament is pushed into it, that's where the mixing happens. The color itself is controlled by how much of each color is pushed into the chamber. Because the mixing chamber is as small as possible, it makes color changes as fast as possible. Now, this doesn't mean that it is perfect, as there will always be impurities, and the best results would probably be if you ran a purge line when you switched colors. (A purge line is basically a line of filament extruded off to the side of the print to clear the nozzle). I cannot vouch for the quality of the colors the head is able to produce, but the results they post seem pretty good. This is, of course, with more basic color combinations like bright blues or oranges and such. I haven't seen any examples of skin tones for instance.

    Ahh, my bad, i don't know the proper terms in english. : P That's what i've been thinking of, since the nozzle needs to be purged/flushed out entirely there will always be some unwanted colors left in it. Then i think the multiple isolated and pre-filled nozzle systems would give the perfect results without wasting too much filament but it would be limited.
  • TsiiiTsiii
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    From what I have seen, the nozzle seems to be able to change colors reasonably quick, but it would still be fairly difficult to change colors from one end of the spectrum to the other, like say a skin tone to a black and then back. Theoretically, you could print the inside of the figure as the transition layers, where the filament is still getting purged/changing colors, and then print the outer shell as the actual desired color, but that would entail quite a lot of busywork. I'm not sure how the software controls the filament mixing or how easy it would be to map which path is what color...
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    Tsiii wrote: »
    From what I have seen, the nozzle seems to be able to change colors reasonably quick, but it would still be fairly difficult to change colors from one end of the spectrum to the other, like say a skin tone to a black and then back. Theoretically, you could print the inside of the figure as the transition layers, where the filament is still getting purged/changing colors, and then print the outer shell as the actual desired color, but that would entail quite a lot of busywork. I'm not sure how the software controls the filament mixing or how easy it would be to map which path is what color...

    That is one good solution for saving filaments. But i think the problem with single nozzles especially in 3D printing is that the amount of purges depend on the color complexity of the printed object, so the more frequently it changes colors the more frequently it needs a purge and sometimes there won't be space to dump the purged colors onto if the object isn't thick enough. However multiple nozzles are instant and need to be purged only once per color.

    I'm wondering if 3D printers use some kind of hydraulic pump or cylinder pump or when the material is melted it just uses gravity to push it out?
  • TsiiiTsiii
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    There are multi-extruder heads for printers, but size is an issue, alongside not being able to combine specific rgb colors for the exact shade desired. As far as print pumps, here’s two methods of extrusion. The more common one on cheaper printers is the Bowden style extruder, where a motor with a toothed gear pushes filament along a tube and into the hot end where it is melted and deposited. The second is a direct drive, where there is no tube. The motor is mounted directly behind the hot end, but drives the filament with a similar setup of motor and toothed gear. In either setup, it’s using the pressure from the motor pushing the filament to extrude material. The material can be stopped from extruding by halting the drive motor, or by spinning the motor in reverse. (This is called your retraction setting, and setting this value properly reduces stringing on your print) There are, however, limitations to the system no matter how good it is. Most 0.4mm nozzles have some oozing which comes naturally with a very hot metal and a molten plastic.
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    I see, so it works similar to how a glue gun works where the filament acts as a cylinder pump and pushes the molten plastic off the nozzle. Then the oozing is unpreventable in such a case, if it happens inside the tube, you would need to have a perfectly sealed cylinder on one end of the tube/hose to prevent it. If it's sealed well, then only the extension of air due to heat could cause the oozing. If the heater is switched off when retracting, shouldn't it stop the oozing?
  • TsiiiTsiii
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    A glue gun is a very good equivalent reference. Cooling down the heater block would certainly stop oozing entirely, but no hot end out there heats or cools fast enough to be used in such a way. Generally, oozing isn't a problem while the printer is on a job, retraction settings can usually keep it low enough such that it doesn't effect the overall quality of the print. The only exception is when you are printing very complex structures.
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited August 19, 2018
    Yeah, however it already starts cooling down when the heating stops and that minor change could be enough to stop it from pushing the material out if it's not getting pushed out due to it's own weight which i'm guessing isn't the case at least not in a small diameter tube. But it would certainly be better if it retracted to a tube with something like two one-way check valves. One valve for the retraction and the other for dosing back into the nozzle that would open only when certain pressure is applied. But other different constructions might work better. Basically oozing is quite a big problem in the painting industry but i'm glad it's not the case here.