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@NotRain
@everyone else
Honestly I'm not surprised people are crying "harassment" over a couple of comments, why? Because it's considered the "in thing" to cry it and want to be a victim because "the cool kids do it". It's not harassment to make a comment, if you get offended by something than that's YOUR problem not everyone else's.
@KiyoujiPanda Going by that logic, if I fire a gun at you, no one else should step in and try to help you even though it's wrong. Besides Prototypemind is the victim, and he hasn't at all said that he's offended; the people pointing out the harassment are merely taking a more active approach against cyber bullying and stalking because it is intolerable behavior. As Rezi has said, this hasn't just been "a couple of comments" - it's been thread by thread. If it hasn't already, it's turned into harassment for Prototypemind and obsession for MisterWhiskers.
wow you people are thinking its a "cyberbullying" or "harassment" issue over a joke that's totally justified and appropriate for how often he posts rants.We totally have to ask forum mods for safe spaces for you snowflakes
if you can't deal with a random joke on a game forum I really fear for how you would handle a real life situation where you disagree with someone
Cyberbullying and harassment are never justified. This might have seemed pretty harmless at first, but when it becomes a thread-thread based thing, there's no other way to see it. It is no longer random, and it is clearly no longer a joke. 5iandh in our off-topic section doesn't get undivided attention the same way MisterWhiskers gives Prototypemind. This isn't just about people getting hurt either, it's about people taking things too far - especially these poor attempts at defending it or deflecting it.
pls don't think even for a second that its just proto who's getting "targeted" ; it's only a coincidence that 99 out of the last 100 rants are made by him
when I'll see another irrational rant post made by anyone I'll be the first to make a joke about it
wow you people are thinking its a "cyberbullying" or "harassment" issue over a joke that's totally justified and appropriate for how often he posts rants.We totally have to ask forum mods for safe spaces for you snowflakes
if you can't deal with a random joke on a game forum I really fear for how you would handle a real life situation where you disagree with someone
What I bolded is victim-shaming. There is no JUSTIFICATION for being rude to someone. If you want to be a bully, at least admit it instead of trying to deflect guilt to the bullied.
I trolled for 5 years. I knew the line. I didn't cross it. Because I knew that once someone wasn't laughing, it was no longer a joke. You don't seem to understand that.
We're not snowflakes. That person who went all Q.Q California was a snowflake. That was 1 person. We are legion. If you have this many people telling you to stop, you should take the hint and stop.
We don't mind you being a Mr./Ms. Negative Critical Person; it's when you're targeting one person more than others that it's an issue. Take a break from Proto for a while and criticize others' threads if you can't stop yourself from being rude.
You trolled for 5 years but never crossed the line? all i can say to this is Make Trolls Great again. Do you know the definition of trolling? it's flaming and attacking other netizens because you disagree with them or just to stir **** up. Irritating people or infuriating them isn't making them laugh in the least, how can you stop before it's no longer a joke. Geez. Am i missing something here?
I've trolled for 5 years and from this experience i will give you lessons on victim-shaming, rudeness, bullying and negativity. I'm such a nice, funny guy.
I play BDO way more than Vindictus now because Vindi is so boring + have so much cash grab atm. It's not about skill anymore, whoever have better gears win even if they do worst.
Around 30-40 of my friends who used to play Vindictus quit and move onto BDO for the same reason.
Do you know the definition of trolling? it's flaming and attacking other netizens because you disagree with them or just to stir **** up. Irritating people or infuriating them isn't making them laugh in the least, how can you stop before it's no longer a joke. Geez. Am i missing something here?
Yes, you are.
Trolling =/= flaming.
Flaming is what fits your definition - it's when you intentionally rile people up to start a flame war (hate war). It's what SJWs do. It's Tumblr in a nutshell.
Trolling is the equivalent of harsh teasing. It's aimed at other trolls, people who know they're being teased; if not, it's aimed at whiny brats who are supposed to detect the sarcasm you're spinning and realize that maybe their pants are a bit too tight.
But when someone fails to see the point a troll is getting across, said troll is supposed to stop it because it's not worth it. The whole point of trolling is to elicit a reaction...of understanding - that "OH!" moment, when a person learns how to laugh at themself and see how stupid their stubborn anger is.
Trolls are class clowns. Flamers are bullies. There is a strict difference.
The Internet used to be full of trolls, back when "Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff" type stuff could be found on the first page of Google...or Y/Search, AskJeeves, whatever. Then the social networks took over and SJWs started flaming everyone; trolls' "jokes" got taken seriously so much that no one understood the jokes or sarcasm anymore, and then trolls just gave up and stopped, because it wasn't worth it.
At the same time, actual cyberbullying ramped up. So between flamers and normal cyberbullies, no one can "tease" anymore because no one else has a backbone; anyone with common sense realized that and stopped trolling, because trolls had unfortunately been lopped in with flamers and cyberbullies due to the ignorance of the massive influx of site moderators.
Nonetheless, trolling had become a habit. Some people were even addicted to it, at least in the sense that it was difficult for them to communicate with people on forums at all without having a good bit of snark. 4chan is where the last of those people went who were unable to drop the habit and adjust to the "oh so serious" way people talk on the net now, which honestly I still find quite annoying.
pls don't think even for a second that its just proto who's getting "targeted" ; it's only a coincidence that 99 out of the last 100 rants are made by him
when I'll see another irrational rant post made by anyone I'll be the first to make a joke about it
@MisterWhiskers I'm just pointing out the flaws in your deflections. Don't you see?
exactly this;nobody has any personal problem with protomind
but to see posts like this rise (pun intended) every second day when they obviously know NX won't bother to listen to any of this..it's getting tiresome.If they don't even listen to KR player feedback,who are their main target audience,they sure as hell won't give a damn about NA/EU complaints; they never did,they never will
"Proto just posts too much and I was commenting out of annoyance." That's all you had to say in your defense. Coming off as aggressive with "freedom of speech" or call people "snowflakes" and can't take a joke is exactly what I mean by taking things too far. People can take a joke, and people are well aware of how free speech works. When people start pointing fingers of harassment at you, it's no longer funny, and your jokes are better appreciated at some other time.
You have a point in comparing trolls with clowns, both hide their identities and do "tricks". Mostly for self-amusement and they wouldn't do it without a public. You paint trolls with a new brush for me, i didn't know they just teased other people to get them back on earth and retreated "gracefully" when they couldn't. I must be missing something here too, because i can't connect wit, sarcasm with the mythical troll. Why not a leprechaun or a goblin? maybe fairies? why the dim-witted, slow, ugly, light-fearing troll is chosen as an avatar for this "movement".
because i can't connect wit, sarcasm with the mythical troll. Why not a leprechaun or a goblin? maybe fairies? why the dim-witted, slow, ugly, light-fearing troll is chosen as an avatar for this "movement".
I've always thought the same thing! It would be better for trolling to be called imping, cuz it's imps that are the devilish tricksters.
But there actually is an origin for the use of troll. It's the Trololo Song by Eduard Khil. Years back, it was as popular as Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up. Links to the videos of those songs were often posted as a form of "trolling" but the name for the movement ended up being taken by the former song even though the latter "rick rolling" was a more popular link.
Then again, one could see Troll as a mixture of the two - Trol(olo) and (Rick )Roll. Trol/Roll = Troll.
So basically what you're saying is trolling is very much in the vein of It's just a prank, bro. Both in legends and real life, tricksters are annoying little **** that range from slightly irritating to causing serious mayhem. Prankers/trolls are attention starved and definitely not funny for most people involved in their shenanigans. To say you were trolling people for them to come to their senses is pretty absurd. I'd be trolling you lately then...mindblown.
To continue. a quick research will show you the origin of the troll/trolling, it's quite old and has nothing to do with that Russian song.
So basically what you're saying is trolling is very much in the vein of It's just a prank, bro. Both in legends and real life, tricksters are annoying little **** that range from slightly irritating to causing serious mayhem. Prankers/trolls are attention starved and definitely not funny for most people involved in their shenanigans.
Anymore. Before most of the whiners joined the Internet, almost all of us were trolls. It was funny for everyone. Now it's not, so we stopped...years ago.
And FYI in "legends and real life" there's such a thing called a Trickster Hero. Tricksters have not always been seen as bad, and in some cases they were revered.
To continue. a quick research will show you the origin of the troll/trolling, it's quite old and has nothing to do with that Russian song.
I'm wondering what your "research" consists of because if you're referring to the Wikipedia article, it's ill-informed. The article claims that it started around 1993, which is not "quite old" and even then there is no actual proof of its use as a verb in the stated group. The earliest actual use of the term trolling that Wikipedia mentions is from The Straight Dope, which is never a good source of information, and the page linked is purely an opinion article. Additionally, the only link Wikipedia has to a capture of that usenet group has a person self-identifying themselves as a "nice troll" but not in any context, which means they likely were referring to themselves as that mythical creature rather than someone who does the "act" of trolling.
That "Russian song" is from 1976, and Astley's is from 1987. The Internet (and its various incarnations) had access to those videos in the form of files. Since the verb came about in the late 90s / early 00s, and there's no actual evidence of its use as a verb outside of a reactionary mention of it in 2000, there is absolutely no weight to your claim that it is "quite old" and that videos from 1976/1987 have nothing to do with it.
I appreciate those who have spoken up for the ill behavior that's been going on. I called out the one person that I felt I needed to in this thread because they attempted to get personal with their attacks and I saw no reason not to correct that. Their post was idiotic on top of being blatantly wrong.
As to the constant troll, I literally ignore his posts as I used to do with another on the old forums. If he wants to continue wasting his life responding to my threads and posts that's his sad prerogative. As most of you have taken the time to call him out on it at this point, unless you see him actually being harmful to someone's sense of self or the like in a thread the best bet is just to ignore him. It's sad that he has nothing better to do, but I can promise he'll feel a lot more empty if people don't bother to acknowledge his posts any longer.
It's really not cliche to simply say don't feed the trolls, they really aren't worth your energy.
@Rezi
In this thread and in our previous confrontation you come hard after me but as before you're not very convincing and use a lot of deflection. Just letting it out there, you often speak in the name of many...is this supposed to give you more weight? you're all alone as far as i saw.
I write in general notions; yes some tricksters were revered because they fought against lawfulness and the tyranny (benevolent or malevolent) of the gods. They're tricksters after all, chaotic beings. Are trolls anything like these exceptions? if not, another deflection on your part.
Yes wikipedia points to early 90's as the start of the trolling, you can see in their references it's early trolling, newbies trolling aka the act of deceiving newcomers to make them stand up in the crowd. Arguably constructive. Their claim and their links are opinions you say and should not be taken seriously. But you are cut from a different cloth.
I went on this shady wikipedia again...and they glaringly say that the first instance of rick roll occured in 2007, links and all. Trololo song became a meme in 2009. So again you use deflections, mentioning how old these songs are as if it mattered. This is getting bothersome.
What's more likely...that trolling is originated in trolling the MIGs/newbies which implies the tactical approach of using decoys and baiting the "victim". Or making a portmanteau of 2 songs largely forgotten by the 2000's.
I appreciate those who have spoken up for the ill behavior that's been going on. I called out the one person that I felt I needed to in this thread because they attempted to get personal with their attacks and I saw no reason not to correct that. Their post was idiotic on top of being blatantly wrong.
el a lot more empty if people don't bother to acknowledge his posts any longer.
while you're here and awake and really wish to know how I and some other people feel about you and other ranters:
Do everyone a favor and post your rants in "gameplay feedback" section.At least that way you're not occupying general discussion space with "omg I hate this game so much I hope it dies already " emo rants ; this goes for anyone who has bitchy feedback to offer
also I'm sure I've spent way less time of my life replying to your posts than you did writing weekly 2000 word rants that are meaningless because NX obviously does not respond to feedback.
Please continue sharing your misery and hatred for this game with these posts.You know rants won't change a damn thing but you and many others still adore doing them because bitching about every minor flaw of a game is the meta on these forums.Also ,tone down the edgelord/superiority complex,it might make your acolytes moist but normal people can spot the douchebag tone in that.Peace and rant ON if that's your life's ambition,you're nearing the "100 Rant posts" forum badge
Comments
I'm really sad you could only conclude those two things when no one intended to defend the qq posts...
pls don't think even for a second that its just proto who's getting "targeted" ; it's only a coincidence that 99 out of the last 100 rants are made by him
when I'll see another irrational rant post made by anyone I'll be the first to make a joke about it
What I bolded is victim-shaming. There is no JUSTIFICATION for being rude to someone. If you want to be a bully, at least admit it instead of trying to deflect guilt to the bullied.
I trolled for 5 years. I knew the line. I didn't cross it. Because I knew that once someone wasn't laughing, it was no longer a joke. You don't seem to understand that.
We're not snowflakes. That person who went all Q.Q California was a snowflake. That was 1 person. We are legion. If you have this many people telling you to stop, you should take the hint and stop.
We don't mind you being a Mr./Ms. Negative Critical Person; it's when you're targeting one person more than others that it's an issue. Take a break from Proto for a while and criticize others' threads if you can't stop yourself from being rude.
I've trolled for 5 years and from this experience i will give you lessons on victim-shaming, rudeness, bullying and negativity. I'm such a nice, funny guy.
Around 30-40 of my friends who used to play Vindictus quit and move onto BDO for the same reason.
Yes, you are.
Trolling =/= flaming.
Flaming is what fits your definition - it's when you intentionally rile people up to start a flame war (hate war). It's what SJWs do. It's Tumblr in a nutshell.
Trolling is the equivalent of harsh teasing. It's aimed at other trolls, people who know they're being teased; if not, it's aimed at whiny brats who are supposed to detect the sarcasm you're spinning and realize that maybe their pants are a bit too tight.
But when someone fails to see the point a troll is getting across, said troll is supposed to stop it because it's not worth it. The whole point of trolling is to elicit a reaction...of understanding - that "OH!" moment, when a person learns how to laugh at themself and see how stupid their stubborn anger is.
Trolls are class clowns. Flamers are bullies. There is a strict difference.
The Internet used to be full of trolls, back when "Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff" type stuff could be found on the first page of Google...or Y/Search, AskJeeves, whatever. Then the social networks took over and SJWs started flaming everyone; trolls' "jokes" got taken seriously so much that no one understood the jokes or sarcasm anymore, and then trolls just gave up and stopped, because it wasn't worth it.
At the same time, actual cyberbullying ramped up. So between flamers and normal cyberbullies, no one can "tease" anymore because no one else has a backbone; anyone with common sense realized that and stopped trolling, because trolls had unfortunately been lopped in with flamers and cyberbullies due to the ignorance of the massive influx of site moderators.
Nonetheless, trolling had become a habit. Some people were even addicted to it, at least in the sense that it was difficult for them to communicate with people on forums at all without having a good bit of snark. 4chan is where the last of those people went who were unable to drop the habit and adjust to the "oh so serious" way people talk on the net now, which honestly I still find quite annoying.
@MisterWhiskers I'm just pointing out the flaws in your deflections. Don't you see?
"Proto just posts too much and I was commenting out of annoyance." That's all you had to say in your defense. Coming off as aggressive with "freedom of speech" or call people "snowflakes" and can't take a joke is exactly what I mean by taking things too far. People can take a joke, and people are well aware of how free speech works. When people start pointing fingers of harassment at you, it's no longer funny, and your jokes are better appreciated at some other time.
I've always thought the same thing! It would be better for trolling to be called imping, cuz it's imps that are the devilish tricksters.
But there actually is an origin for the use of troll. It's the Trololo Song by Eduard Khil. Years back, it was as popular as Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up. Links to the videos of those songs were often posted as a form of "trolling" but the name for the movement ended up being taken by the former song even though the latter "rick rolling" was a more popular link.
Then again, one could see Troll as a mixture of the two - Trol(olo) and (Rick )Roll. Trol/Roll = Troll.
the war against rant posts marches on
To continue. a quick research will show you the origin of the troll/trolling, it's quite old and has nothing to do with that Russian song.
Anymore. Before most of the whiners joined the Internet, almost all of us were trolls. It was funny for everyone. Now it's not, so we stopped...years ago.
And FYI in "legends and real life" there's such a thing called a Trickster Hero. Tricksters have not always been seen as bad, and in some cases they were revered.
I'm wondering what your "research" consists of because if you're referring to the Wikipedia article, it's ill-informed. The article claims that it started around 1993, which is not "quite old" and even then there is no actual proof of its use as a verb in the stated group. The earliest actual use of the term trolling that Wikipedia mentions is from The Straight Dope, which is never a good source of information, and the page linked is purely an opinion article. Additionally, the only link Wikipedia has to a capture of that usenet group has a person self-identifying themselves as a "nice troll" but not in any context, which means they likely were referring to themselves as that mythical creature rather than someone who does the "act" of trolling.
That "Russian song" is from 1976, and Astley's is from 1987. The Internet (and its various incarnations) had access to those videos in the form of files. Since the verb came about in the late 90s / early 00s, and there's no actual evidence of its use as a verb outside of a reactionary mention of it in 2000, there is absolutely no weight to your claim that it is "quite old" and that videos from 1976/1987 have nothing to do with it.
As to the constant troll, I literally ignore his posts as I used to do with another on the old forums. If he wants to continue wasting his life responding to my threads and posts that's his sad prerogative. As most of you have taken the time to call him out on it at this point, unless you see him actually being harmful to someone's sense of self or the like in a thread the best bet is just to ignore him. It's sad that he has nothing better to do, but I can promise he'll feel a lot more empty if people don't bother to acknowledge his posts any longer.
It's really not cliche to simply say don't feed the trolls, they really aren't worth your energy.
In this thread and in our previous confrontation you come hard after me but as before you're not very convincing and use a lot of deflection. Just letting it out there, you often speak in the name of many...is this supposed to give you more weight? you're all alone as far as i saw.
I write in general notions; yes some tricksters were revered because they fought against lawfulness and the tyranny (benevolent or malevolent) of the gods. They're tricksters after all, chaotic beings. Are trolls anything like these exceptions? if not, another deflection on your part.
Yes wikipedia points to early 90's as the start of the trolling, you can see in their references it's early trolling, newbies trolling aka the act of deceiving newcomers to make them stand up in the crowd. Arguably constructive. Their claim and their links are opinions you say and should not be taken seriously. But you are cut from a different cloth.
I went on this shady wikipedia again...and they glaringly say that the first instance of rick roll occured in 2007, links and all. Trololo song became a meme in 2009. So again you use deflections, mentioning how old these songs are as if it mattered. This is getting bothersome.
What's more likely...that trolling is originated in trolling the MIGs/newbies which implies the tactical approach of using decoys and baiting the "victim". Or making a portmanteau of 2 songs largely forgotten by the 2000's.
while you're here and awake and really wish to know how I and some other people feel about you and other ranters:
Do everyone a favor and post your rants in "gameplay feedback" section.At least that way you're not occupying general discussion space with "omg I hate this game so much I hope it dies already " emo rants ; this goes for anyone who has bitchy feedback to offer
also I'm sure I've spent way less time of my life replying to your posts than you did writing weekly 2000 word rants that are meaningless because NX obviously does not respond to feedback.
Please continue sharing your misery and hatred for this game with these posts.You know rants won't change a damn thing but you and many others still adore doing them because bitching about every minor flaw of a game is the meta on these forums.Also ,tone down the edgelord/superiority complex,it might make your acolytes moist but normal people can spot the douchebag tone in that.Peace and rant ON if that's your life's ambition,you're nearing the "100 Rant posts" forum badge