[NEW MERCENARIES] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.

Low Levels are Way too Easy [Baby Mode]

Weak1ingsWeak1ings
Vindictus Vertreter: 320
Posts: 4
Mitglied
in Battle Quests and Guides
I realize that low levels are meant to be "easier" but having the time it takes for a boss to kill you be longer than the time it takes for you to kill the boss ruins any semblance of fun or challenge that Vindictus used to have at the lower levels.

We need the low levels to be at least an intro into Vindictus, not a cake walk. I have fond memories of feeling proud to defeat the golden gnoll back when I started so many years ago after buying the light battle mail (lvl 6 heavy armor!), it was tough then trying to solo him. Now, I can't even fight him. I want the option to have Easy(current), Normal, Hard, Super-Hard, and Hero mode to be available to the player as they first start off the quests, because some of us are more than capable of doing it, this would also allow more advanced players to enjoy starting a new character to boot. Perhaps the most epic modes could even give us gold.


Currently, I would have to be AFK to lose to a low-leveled boss. This is a joke.
Here is a youtube video demonstrating the problem:

FunkyDanShirayume

Kommentare

  • FunkyDanFunkyDan
    Vindictus Vertreter: 100
    Post: 1
    Mitglied
    While i am not that experienced, I firmly agree with you, If i **** up i want to be punished not given a slap on the wrist.
  • Blackbirdx61Blackbirdx61
    Vindictus Vertreter: 1,355
    Posts: 52
    Mitglied
    edited Dezember 5, 2017
    Lots of posts on this theme, in General discussion, not that your wrong. But about 6 months ago a lot of the low level content got seriously nerfed in the Rise update. Personally hoping for a Fall update that undoes most of the Rise patch. Just search GD for difficulty, you'll see your far from alone in your opinions, if only the devs would notice the popularity of Rise even amoung new players. I myself have only seen on positive post on the subject. Definitely would love to see tiered difficulty restored, even C9 still offers tiered difficulty on a quest by quest basis, although the game is visiblely more primative in most every other way.

    Somehow, someone did not get taking candy from babies, even very ugly babies is neither fun, nor engaging, and made the aweful decision gut the difficulty of a game known for its difficulty. If Vindi was bran new with no rep in the world it might be different, but thats not reality. The reality is if you scout the game on YouTube, the game you see is much more challenging than the game you get today.
  • ShirayumeShirayume
    Vindictus Vertreter: 200
    Posts: 3
    Mitglied
    Bring back the Premiere version of Vindictus like it used to be! The way the game is right now feels like the XE Version which was a joke. Literally.
  • Question2Question2
    Vindictus Vertreter: 3,235
    Posts: 718
    Mitglied
    You guys need to understand that while veterans find the game too easy now, there were plenty of newbies that found the game too hard and never even reached s2. If you have tried getting people to play the game you would understand how hard it is to get people to stay. Players used to tab targetting games in particular found it very hard to adjust to dodging boss attacks based on distance/positioning rather than relying on DEF/EVA + a party healer.

    I knew one guy who went back to TERA because TERA apparently displays outlines showing where boss attacks are going to land and he couldnt adjust to dodging without those. Another guy never made it past formorion base because he couldn't even survive on normal mode and kept complaining he was being hit in the middle of combos.

    I also saw plenty of newbies in level 80 gear dying over and over in drag raids because they couldn't time dodges.
  • BOK_CHOIBOK_CHOI
    Vindictus Vertreter: 1,735
    Posts: 72
    Mitglied
    edited Dezember 10, 2017
    Still though, it wouldn't hurt to have an option for higher difficulties, instead of everyone being forced(?) to play the baby mode.
    This doesn't mean the baby mode has to be scrapped, since, as mentioned, many new players (or those who just wish to get to lvl 90 asap) benefit from it.

    After Rise I've felt like I couldn't even learn my newly-made characters properly before the end of season 1 because all bosses died the moment I tried to do anything more than just basic smashes...

    I, too, have fond memories of leveling up with friends & crapping our pants fighting with Gnoll Chieftain (this being only the start of our hard but fun journey) :D
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
    Vindictus Vertreter: 8,530
    Posts: 1,320
    Mitglied
    Dark Souls, and Bayonetta, and DMC, and the like aren't things because no one likes a challenge. Yes, some people whined and quit because of the difficulty, but most people I know who left passed on because of the garbage servers and the horrible enhance/enchant system. I've rage boomed before, and rage yolo'd to success, always motivated by how ridiculous that element of the game is.

    People don't see the vids of Vindi and venture in because it looks like a cakewalk. People are playing the crap out of Miri, but level 90 content is still slow despite all the new people hitting 90ish and being able to explore it. It also doesn't help to have players ez mode it through all the low content only to hit a wall in S3 and feel like they have no idea how their characters work.

    The ease of leveling is fine because grinding side missions was not exciting for most and could be confusing for new players when drops weren't guaranteed and they didn't know why they couldn't progress. This tee ball version of low level content is just bad and it needs to go away.
  • Question2Question2
    Vindictus Vertreter: 3,235
    Posts: 718
    Mitglied
    Dark Souls, and Bayonetta, and DMC, and the like aren't things because no one likes a challenge. Yes, some people whined and quit because of the difficulty, but most people I know who left passed on because of the garbage servers and the horrible enhance/enchant system. I've rage boomed before, and rage yolo'd to success, always motivated by how ridiculous that element of the game is.

    People don't see the vids of Vindi and venture in because it looks like a cakewalk. People are playing the crap out of Miri, but level 90 content is still slow despite all the new people hitting 90ish and being able to explore it. It also doesn't help to have players ez mode it through all the low content only to hit a wall in S3 and feel like they have no idea how their characters work.

    The ease of leveling is fine because grinding side missions was not exciting for most and could be confusing for new players when drops weren't guaranteed and they didn't know why they couldn't progress. This tee ball version of low level content is just bad and it needs to go away.

    I dont think any of those games are MMOs. When you look at the MMO market, most of the players are casuals...that's why WOW is so popular. Before WOW, MMORPGs were insane grind fests like "kill 10k mobs to get one level and +1 str", like Ragarok Online. But times have changed. There are way more casual MMO players than hardcore players now.

    Just my theory but i think games like dark souls can be much harder but still sell well because its a single player game with a MP component, not a MMO. With single player games you can take your time to beat a particular boss and not feel pressured. I have noticed that a lot of MMO players are very competitive....they want to get better gear than others, get top DPS, etc, etc. They want to get powerful quickly and compete with other end game players, not slowly play catch up. If you take a week to beat a single player boss, its not like anyone cares and the rest of the game world waits for you. If you take a week to beat a boss in a MMO, everyone else is racing ahead and leaving you in the dust. Had a friend quit a while back because he only managed to make a +11 and he couldn't stand getting outdpsed by people who just "happened to get lucky and get better gear" (his words). There's no such pressure in single player games, theres nobody to compare yourself to, you progess at your own pace.

    When drags were end game, I used to do roch breakoff runs and people would actually put in the effort to learn how to do breakoffs for thor/ingkells/tita/etc. Me and a few others actually leveled secondary weapon proficiency and crafted sticky bombs to bomb Ingkells while a karok would clash. A few years later, when i tried to get people to do breakoffs for s3 raids (back when the extra core meant something), peopel raged at me and refused to co-operate because they just wanted to go full DPS and chain lockdowns.

    I know like...one guy...who quit because he found s2 too easy now....but hes massively outnumbered by the people who quit because they found the game too hard. As always, your mileage may vary.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
    Vindictus Vertreter: 8,530
    Posts: 1,320
    Mitglied
    edited Dezember 11, 2017
    You can see it as you like. The fact is the game had gotten easier with Rise yet the population has continued to drop to the point of needing a server merge. The forums are far less alive, the game is far less alive even when new bosses and zones are released, and early content is such a joke it's next to impossible to die at the start.

    We used to get graces up until 15 so players had a free out if they didn't get that they couldn't just face tank bosses in the game. Nothing showed that difficulty pushed players away. The complaints were constantly about gearing and the horrid servers.

    Combat is what sets Vindictus apart, and dumbing it down is not convincing people to stick around. I wish the old forums were up, because players who posted quitting rants never cited difficulty, and neither have those on this forum with literally one exception in off-topic pre-rise.

    The game is easier and players aren't coming back, so that wasn't ever the cause of mass exodus. Players came back for S3 and the scroll shop, both of which added features to make gearing easier. Players have uninstalled or started spending on other games since rise and the addition of ridiculously easy leveling, the destruction of S1 & 2 with low health bosses and add damage, and the removal of that content as raids and as 8-player capable.

    No one has made posts praising the lack of difficulty post-Rise, so I'm not sure why you believe this is what anyone but the Director wanted. This update has been garbage from the outset and will continue to be so when it comes to the core of the game.

    Just as a final point, the worst part is that they could have easily put in this new 'Normal' mode and still left the original Hard and Hero available as well for players who wanted to experience them and go back to enjoy them. There was no need the carve up what Vindi was built on simply to implement a new easier mode that care bears wouldn't sniffle over running because it was called 'Easy' rather than 'Normal'. There is nothing that justifies judgement this poor.
  • ArishanteArishante
    Vindictus Vertreter: 1,280
    Posts: 93
    Mitglied
    I don't understand people defending Rise update concerning difficulty. When i introduced my friends to this game, they were happy it's challenging and not the usual tab targeting MMO with bland story/quests. We got our butt kicked by gnolls, vampires and spiders but that didn't make us quit, I personally thought it's epic (especially Bloodlord). We turned it around but more through tactics than getting better gear.

    What's epic about not even having an option to choose difficulty in an action game for 2/3 of the story? Npc's keep amping up the fights, telling you how dangerous X and Y are, only for you to kill them in two-shots or later on in less than a minute. Then you reach s3 and even with all the free booty they give you, you're stumped because you suddenly are potato. To make matters worse, when finally the game is challenging, the story is not of good quality anymore.

    Besides, that's what most are asking. to have the option of normal (easy), hard, hero back.
  • asd000asd000
    Vindictus Vertreter: 200
    Post: 1
    Mitglied
    Dark Souls, and Bayonetta, and DMC, and the like aren't things because no one likes a challenge.

    I haven't played the other two, but I don't think Dark Souls is a very good comparison here. Dark Souls bosses have a physicality to their animations that make their movements followable even on the first encounter, and an accuracy to their attacks that is extremely consistent. I played the whole series (minus Bloodborne) and was able to fight most enemies and bosses by relying on general knowledge and practice rather than anything boss-specific. I might make mistakes and die, but it was always for failing to apply the lessons I'd learned about managing stamina, positioning, and so on. I almost never died to an unfamiliar attack if I was playing well in the first place.

    Vindictus is a bit different in that the hitboxes and damage timing are extremely inconsistent. Sometimes a charging enemy hits the instant it starts the charge animation - other times it just pushes you harmlessly for a second before doing the damage. Sometimes damage occurs at a moment of impact (a hammer hitting, a foot stomping on the ground, etc.), sometimes a lot earlier. Sometimes a sword swings right over your head harmlessly, and sometimes you're standing behind a boss and get knocked over by something that doesn't come anywhere close to you. The animations are erratic and weightless, making it difficult or impossible to read movements until you're very specifically familiar with each one. The result is that it's less rewarding to learn to play because you still have to die a bunch of times and learn through pure trial and error when you're supposed to block or dodge each boss attack, when you have time to fight back, and so on. You can't just "get good" at a character and walk into a boss fight blind, expecting to be able to apply what you've learned.

    It would be great to give people the option of playing the game a lot harder, especially someone on their seventh character fighting gnolls around Colhen. But at the same time, for a game as inconsistent as Vindictus, I think an "easy mode" is an excellent idea. Personally I'd like to see both modes extended a lot farther (harder options for early game stuff, easier options for late game stuff).