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Vindictus and CPUs

Shadowcity2Shadowcity2
Vindictus Rep: 760
Posts: 21
Member
edited November 28, 2017 in General Discussion
TL;DR: Old CPUs suck, have at least 4 threads, buy a modern Intel CPU and overclock it, look up Cinebench R15 single threaded benchmarks.

Disclaimer: I do not have a master degree in CPU engineering, software engineering etc.

Over the years, Vindictus has steadily gotten more demanding as more effects get added, resulting in crippling performance on older computers, even on minimum settings. The game indeed ran perfectly fine on older hardware such as Core 2 Duos, but that was when Season 1/2 was the latest content. Unfortunately, for gamers with older computers, Vindictus is an evolving game and as it ages, it demands more resources. Somehow, this has lead to the belief that GHz means everything and the fewer the threads the CPU has, the better the game runs. This might have evolved from the generally agreed theory that the game is heavily single-threaded dependent.

Another theory I hear get thrown around is AMD sucks, even Ryzen. Yes, they do suck at getting 500 FPS in CS:GO, but for the most part they are plenty good.

But no worries, because today is the day we hopefully clear everything up!

Note: Only relative performance should be considered.

We will focus on five CPUs: E7500, Q6600, i7 2600, i7 2600 (1C/2T) and i5 6600.

Compared to the Q6600, the E7500 has faster single threaded performance, but due to half as many cores, it has relatively low multithreaded performance. We can gauge their rough performance with Cinebench R15 (free download if you want to compare your CPU).

8wdZQmR.png

So theoretically, if Vindictus is purely single threaded the E7500 should be significantly faster, however, it turns out the Q6600 actually pushes more FPS than the E7500 95% of the time. We can also see the E7500 is mostly maxed, almost always hovering around the 95% usage range while the Q6600 hovers around 60%. This enforces the theory of Vindictus utilising more than one thread.

OCOxecH.png
7 FPS vs 10 FPS

Yes, performance is terrible on both CPUs, but we are testing relative performance.

Anyway, if the game indeed uses more than 2 threads, why is the i7 2600 (1C/2T) so much better than the quad-threaded Q6600? After all, the Cinebench R15 score of this CPU is only 133/170 compared to the Q6600's 64/244. A possible theory is the main game engine can only run on one thread, but other parts of the game can run on a separate thread. Let's use the audio engine as an example. In the case of the Q6600, the main game gets bottlenecked on its low performance core, while the audio engine can spill over to the other cores. In the case of the i7 2600, its significantly faster core can tackle the main game engine better and the less demanding audio engine spills over to the second hyper-threaded core. Now that the main game engine can run at full speed, overall FPS increases.

As we can see, the idea of Vindictus utilizing more than one thread is enforced by the comparison of the i7 2600 (1C/2T) and the full fat i7 2600.

FWj7xtI.png
24 FPS vs 38 FPS

The i5 6600 is the clear winner out of all the CPUs. Multithreading performance is equal to the i7 2600, but it screams ahead in the Cinebench R15 single threaded benchmark and real world Vindictus performance.

oJRkehU.png
38 FPS vs 50 FPS

From the testing, it is fairly conclusive Vindictus values single threaded performance the most, but that does not mean a single threaded or even dual threaded CPU is enough to not take a performance hit assuming unlimited GPU performance and RAM bandwidth. The hard thread limit is probably around 4 but until it has been confirmed, we can only guess. For posterity, look up Cinebench R15 benchmarks or any single threaded benchmark as they seem to offer a good indication of Vindictus performance. Please note RAM bandwidth can influence benchmark scores, and it is unknown how important RAM bandwidth is for Vindictus.

Full benchmark video:



TL;DR: Old CPUs suck, have at least 4 threads, buy a modern Intel CPU and overclock it, look up Cinebench R15 single threaded benchmarks.
kls9Nav

Comments

  • ordinaryabnormalityordinaryabnormality
    Vindictus Rep: 990
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    who ever uses a 2 core cpu in 2017 needs to get out of this planet
  • hornywatermelonhornywatermelon
    Vindictus Rep: 3,985
    Posts: 467
    Member
    edited November 28, 2017
    who ever uses a 2 core cpu in 2017 needs to get out of this planet

    It's good enough for R34 sites containing Vindictus material, as well as other educational places. I don't see an issue here.
  • AbaddanAbaddan
    Vindictus Rep: 2,320
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    edited November 28, 2017
    who ever uses a 2 core cpu in 2017 needs to get out of this planet

    Except for Vindictus a dual core overclocked to 5.0 would run like a new Ferrari. Devcat has literally been told what the problem is in the engine by people that used to play this game and were computer programmers.
  • Sir_RenderSir_Render
    Vindictus Rep: 1,720
    Posts: 191
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    I got an I7 Devils canyon with Vindictus in mind when i built a new computer
    it still isn't a solid 60fps Orz
  • Shadowcity2Shadowcity2
    Vindictus Rep: 760
    Posts: 21
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    Abaddan wrote: »

    Except for Vindictus a dual core overclocked to 5.0 would run like a new Ferrari. Devcat has literally been told what the problem is in the engine by people that used to play this game and were computer programmers.

    An overclocked dual core should be pretty good, but as shown by the E7500 and Q6600 comparison a slower quad core can be better, especially under real world scenarios.

  • BatSnacksBatSnacks
    Vindictus Rep: 680
    Posts: 18
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    edited November 30, 2017
    Just thought i'd point out that Ryzen has had a lot of updates and support since its initial release, and is much better for Vindictus today compared to release. I've watched a few older videos and it used to lag a ways behind the I7 and I5's, but more recent videos have shown it to have much more comparable fps. The video you linked yourself shows this if you carefully watch the fps values of the i7 and R7.

    I'm running on the system i built in 2009, and the game still runs Smooth for me at 1080p and a mix of high-max settings, but am planning to update in the next year or 2, providing RAM and GPU Prices fall back in line (damnit i wish i'd bought a 32gb set of memory a year or 2 ago.. sigh)
  • ReziRezi
    Vindictus Rep: 2,585
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    edited November 30, 2017
    Quad core is the future. It's not our fault if Vindictus isn't catching up to every other game. Even the new Firefox Quantum is designed for multi-core and everything loads 10x faster regardless of your initial net speed. If browsers can get with the times, MMOs don't have an excuse.

    The ONLY reason to use single-core is programs that remain designed around one core. The number of those programs is fading and even OSs update around multi-core functionality now.
  • LeXicOLeXicO
    Vindictus Rep: 1,345
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    Rezi wrote: »
    Quad core is the future. It's not our fault if Vindictus isn't catching up to every other game. Even the new Firefox Quantum is designed for multi-core and everything loads 10x faster regardless of your initial net speed. If browsers can get with the times, MMOs don't have an excuse.

    The ONLY reason to use single-core is programs that remain designed around one core. The number of those programs is fading and even OSs update around multi-core functionality now.

    Agreed more cores and threads is the future.
  • DancingStarDancingStar
    Vindictus Rep: 1,695
    Posts: 85
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    edited December 1, 2017
    who ever uses a 2 core cpu in 2017 needs to get out of this planet

    You clearly don't have a clue of what you're talking about.

    As someonelse said a dual core is fine for vindi.
    IF the CPU speed is at least over 3GHZ run quite smooth. Tested by myself.
    Having 100 cores wouldn't help getting better performance if the core have low speed (usually they're all around 2.5GHz) since the game use, mostly, 1 core.

    However is also true that intel CPU seems to give slightly better performance than AMD (for vindi).

    That doesn't justify anyway the fact this game eat up too much resources.
    But i doubt it'll ever be solved.
    Rezi
  • NavNav
    Vindictus Rep: 915
    Posts: 11
    Member
    Good research, a lot of work. Also would be nice to see what RAM was used with CPUs, since it's very important in CPU demanding tests as well. I bet this game works with ram like crap. Since 80-90%+ CPU loading doesn't mean that CORE is utilized that much, it could mean (in many cases) that it's waiting for data from RAM.
    Rezi