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KurtzPel is going to wreck Vindictus so bad.

ReziRezi
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edited November 18, 2017 in Off Topic Discussion
It's almost 2018 and DevCat will have to put all of its effort into Mabi Mobile if they don't want to be completely tanked by this kind of competition. Imagine if the devs had gone a different route, keeping XE and upgrading Vindi to current standards, perhaps it would look like this new game instead of getting trashed when this thing gets released.




Start listening to us, devs, and maybe you can save yourselves before 2018's MMOs destroy you.

Comments

  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    What is that weapon change thing? Is it possible to use all kinds of weapons? (i don't speak korean)

    Because i miss such a feature from the modern MMO's. I would love to play a knight-pyromancer character like in Dark Souls. That kind of freedom to use all kinds of weapons and skills and the damage of which is based on different stats and the attack speed of which is bound to the weapon itself would be cool to have in an MMO.
  • ReziRezi
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    edited November 18, 2017
    Basically that game does what Vindi should have done - every player can switch weapons on their own custom character.

    I'm not sure if players are confined to dual class, but I doubt it. Even if so, you CAN have a character that uses and melee weapon AND a magic weapon, so you're not style-locked like in Vindi.

    What's most significant to me is that the combat is fast-paced and skill-based, like Vindi was supposed to be, and has aerial attacks like Vindi used to with XE. If the devs listened to us and kept that stuff the game wouldn't be in this position. Not to mention the fact that Vindi's FX are nothing to be proud of anymore, while new MMOs have super flashy yet clean ones.


    Just to put the nail in the coffin, KP actually focuses more on action that Vindi does. There are no levels, an extremely low dependence on stats, absolutely no P2W or Time 2 Win, it's balanced around PvP although there is non-linear PvE content across the entire world map, combat is based on reaction time and accuracy of controls, and enhancement/enchantment gimmicks are also nonexistent. In other words, it's a game that entirely allows the player to get right into the game and own everyone if they're skilled in action combat, while the players that rely on stats and equipment and refuse to learn how to play will never rank.

    Basically, everything that Vindi should have been, and actually could have been if that different development path was taken.
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited November 18, 2017
    Rezi wrote: »
    Just to put the nail in the coffin, KP actually focuses more on action that Vindi does. There are no levels, an extremely low dependence on stats, absolutely no P2W or Time 2 Win, it's balanced around PvP although there is non-linear PvE content across the entire world map, combat is based on reaction time and accuracy of controls, and enhancement/enchantment gimmicks are also nonexistent. In other words, it's a game that entirely allows the player to get right into the game and own everyone if they're skilled in action combat, while the players that rely on stats and equipment and refuse to learn how to play will never rank.

    Nice to see when game developers focus more on the playability and the quality side of a game rather than on the monetary side. If the game is fair and playable, they could sell it for anything. Like at the time of S1 in Vindi. The playerbase was at its peak at that time, that's the clear proof that this kind of attitude isn't so bad or risky. This is the only way if they want to attract diverse crowds.

    On the personal side, i lose motivation in a game when i have to spend months just to get a better gear without spending real money or otherwise i contribute nearly nothing to the party or i can spend 25 minutes on soloing a raid that repeats 3-4 moves most of the times. That's why the classic MMO approach will never attract all varieties of players. I think a lot of action games start like this. At the first time all kinds of players try them out, then they quit when they realize it's gonna be time consuming or unfair. Terms like "action", "fast-paced", "needs good reflexes" and bs like that are always attractive until you meet the reality and you realize that "annoying combat with poor strategic choices" (where do i need those god damn reflexes when there is only the typical way to do it?), "unequal" and "unnecessarily time consuming" would describe the game better.

    It would still be possible for them to make an excessive amount of profit from costumes, decorations and things that don't affect the progress in the game.
    Rezi
  • ReziRezi
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    Perhaps the most ironic part of all of this is that KP likely took far, far less time to develop because they didn't put in useless P2W/T2W content like levels and gacha-style enh/ench nonsense, not to mention making mob design a secondary concern while focusing balance on PvP (where real thought is used). Vindi, on the other hand, took forever to make content that Rise just threw into the trash, it's not at all balanced, it's not fair, and everyone's leaving.
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited November 19, 2017
    Rezi wrote: »
    Perhaps the most ironic part of all of this is that KP likely took far, far less time to develop because they didn't put in useless P2W/T2W content like levels and gacha-style enh/ench nonsense, not to mention making mob design a secondary concern while focusing balance on PvP (where real thought is used). Vindi, on the other hand, took forever to make content that Rise just threw into the trash, it's not at all balanced, it's not fair, and everyone's leaving.

    There are people who like farming that i can understand. I liked it too when i started playing MMO's. The problem is that there are a lot of players who don't have much time for games and they just want to hop in for a few dungeon runs or pvp matches. When i played UT2004 and UT3 actively that meant only 1-2 hours a day, usually only one hour because we voted for the same maps after that time. But that 1 hour was eventful.

    I can say the same thing about Tera's battlegrounds. Even though i had a PvP set there that i used in Ally PvP, i couldn't use them in the battlegrounds because it gave everyone equal gears. Only the crystals counted but they were very cheap. So the only thing you had to do is to level up your character to 60 (it was the max. level back then) to max out all your skills. You had plenty of time for PvP and it didn't end like who has the most HP remaining wins (except for Corsair's Stronghold where the throne room crystals' remaining HP counted, but that's a whole different thing) and the knockdowns were moderate not like in Vindi where for unknown reasons characters like Hurk knocks you down with almost every hit, and you get tired of chasing them rather than of the heat of the combat.

    So, there are examples for the Vindi developers if they want to balance out the T2W features with non-T2W features. I'm not an expert in this but players usually have more insight in these things than some of the devs. That's why i think they should listen to them with at least half ear. Then it's up to them if they want to add to those ideas.
    Rezi
  • ReziRezi
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    edited November 19, 2017
    To add to that point, one reason that players are looking less for T2W is that more and more of them are becoming filthy casuals. It's not as if players have less time to play games anymore (most MMO players started playing about 10 years ago, and were kids then, so they were still occupied with schoolwork). It's just that there's so many games now, and the pacing for games has gotten more casual - RPG grind turned into quick FPS matches, non-linear grindfest MMOs became straightlaced P2W mobile games.

    Players appreciate a game that will capture their attention, but they don't want to spend 3 hours on a single task anymore. It's as you said - going straight into PvP or dungeons is what they want; hopefully Mabi mobile will somewhat accomplish that, but I doubt a Vindi remake will get there, and Rise is a terrible way to speed up entry (what was even the point of limiting PvP to max level if someone can just max in a day?).
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited November 20, 2017
    Rezi wrote: »
    To add to that point, one reason that players are looking less for T2W is that more and more of them are becoming filthy casuals. It's not as if players have less time to play games anymore (most MMO players started playing about 10 years ago, and were kids then, so they were still occupied with schoolwork). It's just that there's so many games now, and the pacing for games has gotten more casual - RPG grind turned into quick FPS matches, non-linear grindfest MMOs became straightlaced P2W mobile games.

    Players appreciate a game that will capture their attention, but they don't want to spend 3 hours on a single task anymore. It's as you said - going straight into PvP or dungeons is what they want; hopefully Mabi mobile will somewhat accomplish that, but I doubt a Vindi remake will get there, and Rise is a terrible way to speed up entry (what was even the point of limiting PvP to max level if someone can just max in a day?).

    No game is for filthy casuals, because it's not something in which everyone can always win. That never should be a goal for any game developer i think. What would be the purpose of board games for example if everyone won? The filthy casuals will lose interest in the game the soonest. The people who love the game including the normal casuals will keep playing. As for me i play Vindi very rarely even though i'm not interested in the game anymore. For me Vindi is just a game for occasions when i want to have some fun with or without friends.

    You are right about not having time. It's not because people don't have free time for games, it's because they don't want to spend that time on a game that no longer feeds their interest. Personally i like playing games that inspire me. And i could dedicate some of my free time to them when i'm looking for inspiration. So there are different reasons for why people play a game and it's not always for simply having fun. (however you can call it fun because it's part of it)

    And i noticed that nowadays what people consider quality in a game includes the followings:
    - graphics (the key is often the choice of colors and shaders not the texture resolutions or the polycount of the characters)
    - music (it should fit the mood of that part of the game and contain references to the story and the visuals)
    - sound effects (some basic effects are enough if they don't sound like an 8-bit Atari 2600)
    - animations (not necessarily motion captured, could be hand-made too if the moves at least look more human and not like C3P0's moves)
    - story (it's best if there are mysteries in it that are left to the player's interpretation)
    - mechanics (the most important part but it's not a standalone thing, it can't exist without the minimal requirements of the other parts)
    Rezi
  • ReziRezi
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    That said, KP fulfills all of those. It's cel-shaded, a huge contrast to Vindi's realism, likely won't skimp on sounds, has great animations, is guaranteed to have a great story since it's the same theme as Grand Chase and Elsword, and its mechanics/controls look very well-polished.

    Vindi is a perfect example of what flew 5-10 years ago: Highest detail possible, any amount of environmental interaction even if half-baked, apathetic story dialogue that is forced onto the player yet still easily skipped, jumpscares, and action combat that is ganked by P2W. Mabi is what flew before that - non-linear, party-play focused, optional "chosen one" main story, with endless grind.

    Now it's all about get-up-and-go gameplay, shiny visuals, a good story presented in a way that's not in-your-face, with less of a focus on endgame and more on steady progression throughout where achievements matter more than scoreboards.
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    Rezi wrote: »
    That said, KP fulfills all of those. It's cel-shaded, a huge contrast to Vindi's realism, likely won't skimp on sounds, has great animations, is guaranteed to have a great story since it's the same theme as Grand Chase and Elsword, and its mechanics/controls look very well-polished.

    Vindi is a perfect example of what flew 5-10 years ago: Highest detail possible, any amount of environmental interaction even if half-baked, apathetic story dialogue that is forced onto the player yet still easily skipped, jumpscares, and action combat that is ganked by P2W. Mabi is what flew before that - non-linear, party-play focused, optional "chosen one" main story, with endless grind.

    Now it's all about get-up-and-go gameplay, shiny visuals, a good story presented in a way that's not in-your-face, with less of a focus on endgame and more on steady progression throughout where achievements matter more than scoreboards.

    Now the questions is, will it be available in EU?

    For me it doesn't matter if it has a story if the mechanics pay it off, but it can add to the quality if it has. I liked the story of Season 1 in Vindi. Although it was really annoying to read the dialogues several times with my other characters when it should have been optional. I haven't met any jumpscares in MMO's but there were several jumpscares in DS at my first playthrough, especially the undead dogs scared me all the time when they jumped into my face out of nowhere.

    I'm curious about KP, and i will give it a try if it comes to EU.
    Rezi