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I've been doing some testing using different configurations of Additional Damage and ATT Limit. The existing belief is that a multiplier of 6.25 is applied to the additional damage stat and none is applied to the ATT Limit stat when calculating the effective ATT/power. This doesn't appear to be true in the current version of the game according to my test results.
I'd like to request some data points from Fionas with 1000 - 2000 attack limit and ATT/Bal cap: record the damage of ~25 non-crit, un-deflected Amaranth Kicks in Hero Havan with 10% Awakening enabled.
Link to google sheets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1REiSY-0oPi7qfA4Zr7Uqijy70kAOUJl4ewpD6_buQkA/edit?usp=sharing
I basically need some additional columns with different ATT Limit numbers. I can't test the 711 - 2299 range with my gear. Current test results suggest that 3900 Add Damage + 2300 ATT Limit is weaker than 3800 Add Damage + 2710 ATT Limit.
The multiplier for additional damage still appears to be 6.25. Please note that I'm not attempting to make any claims about the attack formula, I'm trying to understand it myself.
Comments
1) I believe your hypothesis about Attack Limit Release having a modifier of 3.125 is accurate. Trying to account for both predicted and observed damage by changing the ALR modifier to 1.0 and changing the AD modifier to compensate creates a situation where some projections are quite accurate (within a dozen damage points), while others are completely wrong (off by thousands of points). This clearly indicates that there are at least two variables in play, and your 3.125 number for ALR describes the observed results perfectly. It's probably also no coincidence that this new modifier happens to be exactly half of the AD modifier.
2) This change probably happened during Rise, from this late 2016 thread (http://forums.vindictus.nexon.net/discussion/1322/attack-limit-clarification) the numbers this person came out with works out pretty much as expected if the ALR modifier was 1.0.
->As someone pointed out to me, ALR hasn't been around all that long in KR before Rise (a year?). My assumption was that KR would notice any changes when ALR came out, and that information would filter over to us fairly quickly. Though as they pointed out, I can't say that for certain, and it is possible the numbers have been changed for a while and nobody noticed/cared enough to document it. But again, seeing how when Rise came out, both Tpyop0 as well as Shippu and his friend noticed something was different fairly quickly, I'd still lean on the side of saying this is a recent change (I would guess to keep it somewhat relevant against AD, otherwise ALR would be a complete joke, especially for how expensive it is to get).
3) Your assertion that, "3900 Add Damage + 2300 ATT Limit is weaker than 3800 Add Damage + 2710 ATT Limit" is also correct (keeping in mind that you have to have enough ATT over the boss DEF to actually use all that ALR). Just like it is simple to understand how AD works (just multiply each point of it by 6.25 before final modification), ALR works almost the same (multiply each point of that by 3.125, then by 0.95 (assuming max balance) ). Meaning that in an optimal situation, each point of AD is worth ~2.1 ALR. So in your example you lose 100 AD points (~210 ALR), but gain 410 ALR - so everything works out like it should. Yay!
*typo fixed: should have been 'lose' instead of 'gain' and 'was' instead of 'is'.
I still would like to get some more data points since all numbers are subject to sampling error caused by RNG damage rolls. Plugging in any number from 2.5 to 3.5 for the ATT Limit multiplier value gives me decent matches, and I'd like to get a better number. 3.0 is currently the closest match. It would have been good if the Gremlin dumplings were still usable.
https://vindictus-hd.blogspot.com/2014/06/formula-common-formulas.html It's from 2014, when people cared about such things. None of this is my work. The original website in which the data comes from appears to be down.
The skill multiplier of Amaranth Kick? I don't know. But it shouldn't matter since skill multiplier should be applied after the effective damage/power and I use only one skill for my comparisons.
-Yeah, you're right, either trying to 'align' the multipliers across all sample points or the predicted damage shouldn't matter in the end.
Any chance you could get, say ~100 data points per gear setup? I'd be curious to see how the numbers move. Currently, the standard deviation in damage per hit compared against the set average runs from ~0.65% to 1.37%. Also, is there a data input error in setup #5? Noticed the 39.5k hit, which is waaay off for the rest of the samples (which makes the st.dev/set average over 15%...).
That's a good catch. That's the crit number. We can just take it out. This makes config #2 the only sample set in which the two bases deviate from each other by more than 2% so I'll run that again when I get a chance. I'll get burnt out if I have to kick Havan in the crotch for 100 more times per config set.
-Been there, did a study on the damage formula / ein lacher a while back sampling multiple gear setups against multiple bosses usually 95+ samples per run...it does get a bit soul crushing...
Also, in case you haven't already done this - the st.dev between predicted damage / a theoretical ability multiplier / and observed damage is ~1.06% using 3.125. Of course the margin of error for each testing set also averages around 1%, so aside from using bigger sample sets, I don't know what can be done to make more accurate predictions.
It's a good question. I did some testing instead of going to bed... I tested 3 configurations on Hero Havan, which has a Battle ATT Cap of 23,000:
1) 23,021 ATT, 3300 Add Damage, 2400 ATT Limit
2) 25,451 ATT, 3300 Add Damage, 2400 ATT Limit
3) 28,424 ATT, 3300 Add Damage, 2400 ATT Limit
The Additional Damage and ATT Limit values are same for all 3 configurations. Bal is at 90. Configurations 2 and 3 did the same damage. Configuration 1 did much less damage. You should get the full benefit of 500 ATT Limit if you are 500 ATT above the Battle ATT Cap. These 3 configurations are #8, #9 and #10 on the spreadsheet.
500 limit release
A noticeable at least 2.5% difference . There is no way that Limit release has no multiplier after RISE.
28453
28313
28220
28360
28453
28964
28406
28592
28174
28313
28360
28592
28638
28638
28731
28546
28453
28453
28592
28731
28592
28731
28731
28638
28685
28917
28546
28871
28546
28360
28406
hope it helps
Thanks. I appreciate the help.
I'm going to wrap up this set of experiments with: "There is a multiplier for attack limit and it's around 3.0". Anywhere from 2.8 to 3.2 seems to give close enough matches. Anyone that can afford ATT Limit will have high enhancements as well anyway. Make no mistake that the Additional Damage stat will have the biggest impact on the damage dealt by far, and its impact is big enough to allow end-game characters to ignore most fight mechanics.