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Does anyone actually like PVP?

Thinh2Thinh2
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in PVP Discussion
Be honest; is it fun enough to keep playing without becoming extremely bored to death? Would it entice newbies to continue further in this game?
  1. What are your current views on PVP?63 votes
    1. It's a complete waste of time
       65% (41 votes)
    2. It's ok but could be improved
       35% (22 votes)
    3. It's perfect; nothing needs to be changed
       0% (0 votes)

Comments

  • DyuDyu
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    "It's a complete waste of time"
    Just like watching anime or playing any game in the end. If something is fun is fun. Sure, tradeable artifacts would be awesome if it was a thing amirite?
  • ZeroheartZeroheart
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    PVP is not that enjoyable since it requires many people to do free match or siege (Yet rise reduce raid fight but not this?). Also a lot of character imbalance and people just juggling other people or Kai that run away shooting making it almost impossible to touch him. The artifacts use to be tradable when they come out. wish we could trade between own account. I have a cat and greater cat but can not give it to my alts. Give us an option to sell back for seals !!!
  • BeepBeepImAJeepBeepBeepImAJeep
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    Nah, people are toxic there. They blame you for spamming a certain move/mechanic, while they spam their own. It's a den of hypocrites.
    I used to go pvp to play with friends, but since most of them left the game and i got capped triumph seals... there are no reasons for me to go Arena/Siege/Deathmatch.
    Pvp could return being a busy place if artifacts become tradable again.
    DyuSlothPrincess
  • DrachusDrachus
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    When you actually learn PvP in Vindictus it becomes more appealing. If you play PvP like you'd play PvE you're probably not gonna find any fun in it because you'd be losing most of your matches. But yes, there is a lot to be worked on when it comes to it. The whole idea of it is great, a PvP which is based on you predicting your opponents moves is what makes it interesting, however the execution of it is rather poor.
  • V0lterixV0lterix
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    I do PVP at any opportunity because of a lack of things to do otherwise. Over 7 months I spent several million, possibly hundreds, on megaphones to start Free match or Siege. 9/10 times on west, I was in any given multi pvp match.
  • AtherionAtherion
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    V0lterix wrote: »
    I do PVP at any opportunity because of a lack of things to do otherwise. Over 7 months I spent several million, possibly hundreds, on megaphones to start Free match or Siege. 9/10 times on west, I was in any given multi pvp match.

    10/10, you stop cause of a 7k crit from yours truly c:
    V0lterix
  • NuclearChickenNuclearChicken
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    I do enjoy aarena from time to time, I mean... if someone is even there
    Drachus
  • Arrow95Arrow95
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    edited July 9
    There's always room for improvement, doesn't mean it is so bad it is unplayable, just keep in mind pvp is different from pve the way dodges work and you regen stam slower, so it takes a bit of time to get used to it.
  • DrusaDrusa
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    Anner
  • MrGattoMrGatto
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    I would rather go back to the 12+ years old 'pvp' game I've used to play than to bother with Vindi pvp,even that stoneage shet had better pvp than this,lol.
  • FeeFee
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    The game is not really meant for pvp. Certain characters have a significant advantage over others, and fiona is the least interesting to play in the pvp scenario.
    Kai is not fun to fight against, and it's just not that fun in my opinion overall. Not to mention I rarely ever see anyone trying to actually pvp seriously, and those who do are king of the rats and act like they're Gods in a game where pvp is already not prioritized or even generally played much.

    I HIGHLY doubt any new user would come to this game for the pvp experience. Just what I think tho.
  • DollfieDollfie
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    edited July 15
    Used to, when players could do the balancing on their own.

    Continued up until it turned into a grabbing fest.

    Now I am intimidated by all the OP players.
  • Order5Order5
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    The rewards like artifacts are even more reasons as to why no one likes PVP. Most people grind and grind seals just to get these artifacts to use in PVE; it's a chore that makes PVP even more despised as opposed to making it more enjoyable.
  • kuuraiHotarukuuraiHotaru
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    PvP is only fun if you play with others around your skill level.
    DrachusSlothPrincess
  • SefSef
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    I used to PvP a lot. I had 5k wins by the time I quit and was fairly decent at swords and spears. Over time though it just got more and more infuriating with each match I played.
    Grabs missing at point blank but at other times teleporting me a good distance to my opponent, enemy attacks completely ignoring my dodge, my attacks not hitting someone who clearly isn't dodging and is very clearly in range, my attacks not registering on my opponent who is LITERALLY right in my face clipping with my character and isn't in any form of invulnerability etc etc you get the picture.

    So I quit.
  • MyDeliaMyDelia
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    People, the game lags even with 4 players in a raid and you only have to take into account AI movement.

    Now you try and transfer that movement, hit box, and everything to another character and you think it's going to be better somehow?

    The most powerful characters in PvP are those with large aoe attacks that can hit outside of dodge range as well as characters with spammable movement/invincibility.

    This means characters like Karok, Hurk, and xgun Kai are simply ridiculous in PvP.
    If you're playing something else then you better pray.

    You can literally be a screen and a half away from a xgun Kai but his Hollow Shot will still damage you.
    You can literally attack a Hurk all day but he'll just block frame through all of your damage.

    It's stupid, it's a waste of time, and the saddest part is that there are people out there who think PvP is worth something and they play it a lot with their Hurk/Kai thinking they are good at the PvP mode or something when in fact they're just playing a character that is better able to use it.

    You don't ever hear a Vella or Delia saying PvP mode is the greatest. It's always some Hurk or some xgun Kai thinking PvP mode is really good.
    Why? Because from their point of view it is good, they do damage and get kills all the time and they don't die as often because they can spam their defense move. Their attacks hit a large area and will hit players through the lag even when the other player is dodging half a screen away.
    If you're playing sword Vella you have nothing. Cross cut doesn't work, your attacks are really slow by comparison and hit only a really small area, your dodge is not as spammable and doesn't give invincibility the same way Kai's roll or Hurk's impenetrable does. So you literally suck at it.

    You can spend all your time as sword Lann playing PvP and you'll still lose to some xgun Kai rolling back and forth firing Hollow Shot into random areas as the lag just drops damage onto you while you do nothing to him.

    If you don't believe me you can hook up two computers right next to one another.
    Go PvP with both of those computers. Set up a camera, dodge on computer A and watch when the dodge is shown to happen on computer B.
    You are not fighting another player when you play PvP. You are literally chasing and attacking some random ghost image and it is never where they are or doing what they are actually doing. Because of this, large aoe attacks that will buffer through the lag and spammable invincibility moves are OP.

    It's simply not a viable code to be competitively playing PvP on. Morever, the balance of the characters themselves precludes any kind of meaningful gameplay with respect to player skill.

    I used to make posts in here and it was always some player like xgun Kai or some Hurk claiming PvP was really good and was really competitive.
    At that time I had a really well equipped xgun Kai and Hurk myself. I always requested that if they thought they were good at PvP they can play on a sword Vella, we can normalize the the equipment, and then I'll play xgun Kai and we can PvP. Because I don't even play PvP a lot but I'm 100% sure I could've killed them just by spamming dodge and Hollow Shot at a sword Vella while she has to beg lag to do damage to me.

    The chasing ghosts and shadows thing is already apparent in normal PvP gameplay. Sometimes you'll hit a person but no damage will register. Why? Because on their screen when your attack went in they were in invincibility and/or were nowhere near you. So again, things like Hurk that can spam impenetrable around and not ever really be hit, or xgun Kai that can spam dodge around and hit a huge area with Hollow Shot, they are op. Or hopping Evie. etcetc.

    Like... I can't comprehend the stupidity of PvP, and it's so sad that some people think it's a good game mode.
  • DrachusDrachus
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    edited July 21
    @MyDelia
    MyDelia wrote: »
    The most powerful characters in PvP are those with large aoe attacks that can hit outside of dodge range as well as characters with spammable movement/invincibility.

    This means characters like Karok, Hurk, and xgun Kai are simply ridiculous in PvP.
    If you're playing something else then you better pray.

    Okay in this whole text I can agree on only one thing (partially) and that is that Hurk and Karok are ridiculous in PvP. As far as the rest is concerned... What...? Well I must be a rare pokemon because I main a TS vella. Your problem is chasing someone, ever heard of grab? Vella is even a counter for xgun kai imho as we can deflect hollow shots straight to their face. You're a classical example of someone who thinks they're good in PvE so they come to the conclusion that they can do the same thing in PvP and get destroyed and start blaming everything around them instead of getting good. I'm not excluding the fact that Karoks and Hurks are simply ridiculous in PvP as I've said before, but even they can be countered.
    MyDelia wrote: »
    You don't ever hear a Vella or Delia saying PvP mode is the greatest. It's always some Hurk or some xgun Kai thinking PvP mode is really good.
    As I said I'm a TS vella and I think PvP in Vindictus is a great idea but it has been forsaken by the Devs. unknown.png

    MyDelia wrote: »
    Cross cut doesn't work, your attacks are really slow by comparison and hit only a really small area, your dodge is not as spammable and doesn't give invincibility the same way Kai's roll or Hurk's impenetrable does. So you literally suck at it.
    Xcut doesn't work? I'll just leave this here https://youtube.com/watch?v=mUIGFm3javo
    MyDelia wrote: »
    The chasing ghosts and shadows thing is already apparent in normal PvP gameplay. Sometimes you'll hit a person but no damage will register. Why? Because on their screen when your attack went in they were in invincibility and/or were nowhere near you. So again, things like Hurk that can spam impenetrable around and not ever really be hit, or xgun Kai that can spam dodge around and hit a huge area with Hollow Shot, they are op. Or hopping Evie. etcetc.

    I'm not sure about the first part of this paragraph. I'm not sure if I misunderstood but you're complaining about invulnerability buff? The buff which you get on the 2nd half of your dodge animation after predicting your opponents smash? I'm not sure really, but I've never had those issues with hitboxes that you're mentioning now.

    IN CONCLUSION.....
    Judging from what you've wrote, it's clear that you have no experience in PvP what so ever. You never bothered to learn it, instead it sounds like you're playing it just like you'd play PvE and then complain how you can't win because system etc. I've noticed that this is quite common in the whole Vindictus community. Not necessarily PvP related, but in general. People like to complain a lot about things that don't go in their favor. Yes I agree that PvP needs more work put into it and that it's quite outdated. But your statements don't prove a single thing.

    PS: Also forgot to add, one of the best pvpers on EU is Fearmaster (TS lann with over 16k wins in arena) so just another situation where you're wrong about lann (for example) being weak.
  • MyDeliaMyDelia
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    The only way to be "good" in PvP is to learn the normal patterns that people take and then attack into the areas where they would be rather than where they currently are on the screen. But again, it's just a completely random thing because you are NEVER fighting someone. You are just fighting some ghost of theirs and they are actually never where they appear.

    You might as well roll d20 dice all day and the one with the higher number ones.
    Hurks, crossgun Kai, and Karoks get d20s.
    The rest gets smaller and smaller die from there.

    The "good players" are simply the ones who get lucky winning streaks or who always seem to roll high on average (again, the 3 mentioned classes) and think this completely RNG thing is worth doing so they keep doing it.

    Oh, congrats, over 16000 wins in arena. As if that's supposed to mean something? All it means is he wasted enough time to play over 16000 arena battles.
    It's like saying you have watched over 16000 Sesame Street episodes. The only thing impressive is that you had that much free time to waste.

    For MMORPGs with worthwhile PvP go look at something like Elsword, Dragon Nest, or Blade and Soul.
    Don't even try to lie to yourself that PvP in Vindictus matters beyond seal trading for the artifacts or emblems if you want something extra.

    =========

    And for all of what you say above about how there is grab or deflecting Hollow Shot.
    Here's what happens when you see a Vella trying to deflect Hollow Shot.
    You sit there and just auto her with crossgun Kai. Why? Because she's in cross stance and can't do anything else. If she then deflects early you can trigger Hollow Shot at her and hopefully hit some ghost of her. If she doesn't she's in a losing position. There is never a way to force an advantage. You are always playing from behind. That is not a competitive system. It's a stupid system and you should be ashamed that you're defending it beyond anything as a medal gaining system.

    Also as already remarked above. You can land a grab perfectly but no grab will take place. Why? Because as already stated, in PvP, you never fight the person, you're just fighting some laggy ghost of theirs that is leftover from them moving around. It's not PvP. It's Player VS Laggy image on the screen.
  • DrachusDrachus
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    edited July 24
    WARNING
    f86.jpg

    MyDelia wrote: »
    The only way to be "good" in PvP is to learn the normal patterns that people take and then attack into the areas where they would be rather than where they currently are on the screen. But again, it's just a completely random thing because you are NEVER fighting someone. You are just fighting some ghost of theirs and they are actually never where they appear.
    Again, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know in what conditions you play in because I've never heard of "any" delay having THAT much influence. For me it happens rarely, maybe once in every 9 fights. Also PvP in Vindictus is based on prediction. You have to predict what your opponent will do and for that you develop a counter measure against it. If you just spam attacks without thinking your opponent will just get invulnerability buff and win the exchange with you and later on win the match.
    MyDelia wrote: »
    You might as well roll d20 dice all day and the one with the higher number ones.
    Hurks, crossgun Kai, and Karoks get d20s.
    The rest gets smaller and smaller die from there.

    Okay tell me, which attack you can't dodge. Exclude this problem which you have with "fighting after images" because I've never experienced it to the extent you're describing it. Is there an attack in PvP which just CAN NOT be dodged? You're giving xgun kai way too much credit, imo they're at great disadvantage compared to other classes because they don't grab so you can literally spam dodge until you get invulnerability buff so you can approach them. They can't stop you from dodging around. If Karoks or Hurks spam attack, the situation is the same. Try to time your dodge to their smash so you get hit on your 2nd half of dodge animation to get invulnerability buff and then deal damage and repeat. Of course if they're not brainless they'll try to grab your dodge instead of feeding you free invuls.
    MyDelia wrote: »
    The "good players" are simply the ones who get lucky winning streaks or who always seem to roll high on average (again, the 3 mentioned classes) and think this completely RNG thing is worth doing so they keep doing it.

    Back in the days, when DesireOfMine(Chain blade Vella) played actively on EU he could get 70 consecutive wins, would you call this luck? RNG? Fearmaster(TS lann) usually gets around 30 etc... If these are what you call RNG then these guys seriously must have enough luck to get a +20 from the first try *Sarcasm obviously*
    MyDelia wrote: »
    Oh, congrats, over 16000 wins in arena. As if that's supposed to mean something? All it means is he wasted enough time to play over 16000 arena battles.
    It's like saying you have watched over 16000 Sesame Street episodes. The only thing impressive is that you had that much free time to waste.
    Well you might consider it waste of time, but then again everything is. Every other game which you play is a waste of time. Me trying to explain this to you, also is a waste of time. You're free to not like PvP, it's fine I have a lot of friends who absolutely hate it but at least they admit that they don't know anything about it (basically saying that PvP is not their cup of tea and that's fine). The reason why I pointed out Fearmaster is because he rarely loses to a Hurk, Karoks or xgun Kai's that you so much glorified. But you missed you either missed the point or misunderstood the fact that I used his numbers as a sort of an indicator to his achievemnts.
    MyDelia wrote: »
    For MMORPGs with worthwhile PvP go look at something like Elsword, Dragon Nest, or Blade and Soul.
    Don't even try to lie to yourself that PvP in Vindictus matters beyond seal trading for the artifacts or emblems if you want something extra.
    I can't say anything about Dragon's Nest as I've never played before. I agree on Elsword, it's a nice PvP mode, enjoyed it. But Blade and Soul I disagree to a certain extent. You can maybe blame this on my lack of experience in that game I didn't play it for long but all I can say is this... In Blade and Soul there is little to ANY personal design in it. Everyone's playing a certain thing the same way. The only difference is how used you are in fighting other classes so you can repeat the same thing with better adjustments to your opponent, in other words if I was to select one class and it's best possible outcome I'd just repeat the same thing over and over again. Now, in case you want to say that the same thing is in Vindictus PvP, you're wrong. I have never met ANY Vella (TS) who plays it the same way I do. Most just do random spamming and lose then complain how weak they are. I even had situations where I went on my smurf TS Vella to PvP against people and they figured out that it's me just from my playstyle. There is even a Video posted above about one doing it like that (Yes looking at you Drusa :D. While he's good in PvE his PvP playstyle consisted of constant spamming and that's why he lost to a really undergeared Karok, didn't try to grab on dodge nor normal attacks, tried abusing lift after knock many times but failed, hits someone on dodge/invulnerability buff then says "I'm not doing any damage what the **** is this").
    Also one thing I'd like to add about this that PvP in Vindictus doesn't go beyond seal trading... Well, bluntly put, some people are more satisfied with their personal progress than getting items. PvP on EU was quite active and there were MANY players who were playing the game just because of PvP because PvE content often gets repetitive and boring as all you have to do is learn pre-animations and adjust your timing to it and you're good to go. (PS: Now hold up, I'm not trashing PvE in vindictus here since everyone gets so triggered when I say this. I honestly think Vindictus has one of the best combat systems to ever be introduced as far as my experience goes).

    Not gonna link the last paragraph since the text is already big enough. If you want I can post video's here of me fighting xgun kai's so you can see it's not as broken as you say it is. And about the last part.... Again, I'm not sure what kind of packet data loss do you suffer. I myself only experience rarely, it can happen when there are a lot of people in Arena and then it causes it to lag a bit but even then it's not as drastic.


    ====================================================================================
    And now, let me list some of the things you could call PvP out on. (Gonna do your job for you :D)
    1) Gear depending - It creates unfair advantages
    2) Certain combo's/attacks not being adjusted so they fit PvP - Example: Your fav Hurk's revenge buff that deals way too much damage. Sylas' stamina cost on shift + RMB (vella can deflect it which is nice), Lift damage in PvP is punishing a mistake of a player who uses a normal or grab way too much. Improving certain grabs for example, Fiona's and Evie's are just horrible as they're way too narrow.
    3) Putting things that are usable in PvE obtainable by PvP - Artifacts. I hate it that I have to go to PvE to get gear for PvP because of equipment depending to a certain extent and I would love that to be fixed, so the same should apply to Artifacts for PvE players. Why be forced to do PvP for something that you don't care about and ruin the experience of those players who want to fight just by joining and suiciding. The bad thing about that is that players would have no need to ever bother learning how to PvP. I don't necessarily blame players for this, this is the fault of Devs and Nexon for letting an idea this great stay "literally" in alpha phase and I understand why some people would find it unappealing. However, saying that it sucks because you didn't spend enough time trying to learn it is pretty much being narrow-minded. (Though... I still think that artifacts are more of a PvP luxury which is usable in PvE, I could be bias about this)

    In conclusion... The idea of this PvP as I stated in my first response is GREAT, but it needs more development put in it. With equal equipment, fixing abuses (attacking after knock where your opponent has no room to defend himself, which usually result in perma-lifts etc..), adding ranking systems to make it more competitive (Similar to what Blade and Soul has) and adjusting some (yes SOME! Don't use this as an argument "Oh I've told you that PvP would be better if they changed everything about it". I'll repeat it again since I don't want to return to this topic again. The thing which I like about this PvP is the IDEA, there are things which I'm strictly against but overall it's good) character mechanics in PvP. I honestly wish Vindictus Developers would have an open mind about this as well as the players.
    IphitKuraiHotaruJohnKnight6
  • IphitIphit
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    Blade and Soul has as much of prediction as you'll see in Vindictus, just less noticeable and that's because there is a big emphesis on other parts which makes the gameplay a bit more complex. One side of BnS's PvP is being able to execute mechanics to allow combo chains and reaction time. The reason why it requires much skill is based on combo's, stuns and counters making you rely a lot on prediction. This concept is similar to console fighting games but in this case, it's applied to a PC in a MMORPG. On the other hand, I'm fine with PvP in Vindictus, in fact, I love it. It has a lot of potential, the sad part is just like you've mentioned... It wasn't their main focus but it can still be enjoyable. I don't think there are broken classes just a few that are underpowered compared to the rest. The most noticable difference between classes is when you try mastering them. Some have pretty simple and straight-forward mechanics. For example, Hurk, Karok and maybe Lann... While the others have way wider kit those classes rely strictly on a certain pattern which makes the rest of the classes look really bad.
    DrachusKuraiHotaru