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Hidden cities on Ortel's map

ReziRezi
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edited September 5, 2017 in Story
Some players might assume that there's no "canon" map for the game. After all, the devs love moving dungeon locations around. However, this actually isn't true; Ortel castle has a map hanging on its wall that is always consistent, and this map has some cities not in the game...

For point of reference, the following image (linked) has Colhen circled. Rocheste is right below it; you can identify it by the two tall towers on its left side. However, there's a massive - and I mean MASSIVE - castle/city at the bottom right that afaik has never been revealed in game (another nation, perhaps?).

http://i.imgur.com/WRwfmXM.jpg

Comments

  • StudentOfTheGoddessStudentOfTheGoddess
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    That might be Taratha, which was where the king and royal family used to live before the Pontiff ordered a witch hunt.
    ReziSpareoh
  • StudentOfTheGoddessStudentOfTheGoddess
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    edited September 6, 2017
    Lxk9fKo.jpg
    Decided to try and make an understandable version of the map, locations may be, and are most likely wrong in a few cases. Feel free to correct me if you find anything.
    I tried naming the locations based on where they are on the quest map, how closely they resemble the locations in the map and with information give throughout the main story.

    EDIT: It has come to my attention that Colhen was mapped wrongly, it should be right bellow Rocheste. It fits seeing as the path we take on foot matches, and the bell tower would be visible just like when we take the path to Rocheste.
    Untitled.png
    Colhen Circled in Red
    ReziSpareoh
  • ReziRezi
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    Good eye! Your map's way clearer than mine...

    In that case, the place I had circled is likely the Ruins.

    Wait, so that means the river-like thing we're seeing between C and R is likely a road, meaning that there should be a fork in the middle of it. When it comes to the Bell Tower, though, this labeling makes sense as the open area at the C dock would be that large path from C to BH.
  • SilentineSilentine
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    This is really interesting, It inspired into to try at see if I can solve which area is which, however, if this map posted by StudentOfTheGoddess is right then Catacombs and Hoarfrost Depths should be where I pointed in this image, because comparing the rocheste and cohlen map in on the board it shows that Catacombs should be a little to the right from Ainle and Hoarfrost Depths should be left of Hoarfrost hollow, at that more rocky area.
    Anyway this is probably wrong but we can only theorize and speculate for now, but however it is really interesting.

    IFpbdUy.jpg

  • StudentOfTheGoddessStudentOfTheGoddess
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    Silentine wrote: »
    This is really interesting, It inspired into to try at see if I can solve which area is which, however, if this map posted by StudentOfTheGoddess is right then Catacombs and Hoarfrost Depths should be where I pointed in this image, because comparing the rocheste and cohlen map in on the board it shows that Catacombs should be a little to the right from Ainle and Hoarfrost Depths should be left of Hoarfrost hollow, at that more rocky area.
    Anyway this is probably wrong but we can only theorize and speculate for now, but however it is really interesting.

    IFpbdUy.jpg

    What you pointed as the catacombs would be actually Colhen, the catacombs are in Ainle so it makes little sense they'd be accross the river. Regarding the Hoarfrost Hollow and Depths, they are the same mountain and caves, one is just deeper. Doesn't hurt to have the description, I left it vague by not pointing to one or the other and just calling it Hoarfrost.

    For better (or worse) understanding of the map, I coloured it a little (badly), as it might have been before the release of Elchulus.
    Vindictus_MapColored.png?width=780&height=624
    SilentineRezi
  • SilentineSilentine
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    edited September 7, 2017
    @StudentofTheGoddess Yes I might be right about Cohlen/Catacombs, it kinda is against that catacombs should be there, even though the map in rocheste board shows they should be. I did some digging in this is what i think.

    - There Similarities and differences between the map in Rocheste and the one on the Battle board. As we know mapping in the past (durring mediaval times) were far from perfect, during that time they did not have the technology to make the maps exact.

    AFjieYw.jpg

    Lxk9fKo.jpg

    - I did some comparison of areas and areas that are similar in shape/form of the two maps.

    dphRQjB.jpg

    - Or better comparison by numbers.

    mEU4YpE.jpg

    - The small castle/city between the two mountain trails (1 and 10) matches Niflhelm as shown in the battle board map.
    - I think there is no doubt about Prairie and Ainle, both board map and rocheste map show the same.
    - Perilous Ruins is also exactly pinpointed just like it was suggested. Both board and Rocheste maps show the same.
    - I really don't think Ben Chenner is where we think, I see no connection, however I haven't compared S3 board map so...I really don't know.
    - Hilder Forest on board map is different than the Rocheste one, however it might be that the board marker is just moved to the left so the are is not blocked.

    Anyway, comparing the shapes and forms of some areas, I came up with this:

    AM7eahC.jpg

    I might be wrong, but for some areas I am sure, for others I agree with StudentOfTheGoddess, I just have doubts about Ben Chenner.

    - But what about the letters and language that is written on the map? Even though its blurred and hard to see, I tried to write it down and look around for Celtic languages that have symbols close to it. The closest ones I could find is Celtiberian, Nordic, but i lean more to Celtiberian. However, trying to translate it is harder than I thought, because first of I am not sure at all if it IS actually Celtiberian. There are atleast 10 more Celtic Languages. But It surely must be some sort of Celtic/Mabinogian language because we know the game is based on the Celtic myths and legends.

    Aa6UMrI.jpg

    Celtiberian Language:

    celtiberian.gif

    Some letters even match letters from the Iberian Language:

    iberian.gif

    Translating the writing from the map is extremely difficult if possible. I tried to see if I could match the writings with some Celtic languages but it turned out extremely hard for me. If anyone could make out something out of it, I would be happy to listen.
    StudentOfTheGoddessReziSpareohCasca
  • StudentOfTheGoddessStudentOfTheGoddess
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    Going for the language is most likely a loosing battle.
    I didn't map Heide and Albey because to get there you use the Rocheste Sewers (seen in the Betrayal quest). The placement of those two areas on the quest map are questionable at best, and entirely wrong at worse.
    The unknown area is non-cannon storywise just like the Royal Army Raids, so it's not mapped either.
    Regarding Ben Chenner, it is said that it's beyond the Fobellow Praire and that it was a volcano due to Elchulus being sealed there (It's defiantly a mountain though), so it might be even beyond what was mapped, but it's in the direction of where I mapped it.
    Niffleheim might me there, I'm not sure if the Fomor hell would be someplace in the mountain, but I won't argue it.
    The ruins of sanctity and hoarfrost depths might be right, but I prefer keeping broader terms, just calling it Ruins and Hoarfrost since they're so close and almost the same place.
    Rezi
  • ReziRezi
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    I agree with the above. Albey is definitely accessed from the Rocheste Sewers. However, I'm not sure if Heide was stated to be in Albey... Perhaps so, but is there evidence?

    Ben Chenner is a volcano? If so, your coloring of it makes sense, but from what I see in-game it's more of a forest.

    Niflheim is the land of the dead, and the land of the dead is always underground in myths. However, the in-game quests suggest it's related to Ortel, as the Succubus Queen quest makes use of those key pieces that the Castle used as well as a shield from Ortel in Zecalion. I'm not saying it IS Ortel Castle, but it's strange for it to be on the opposite side of the map from it. And don't forget that the Labyrinth used to be in that same spot despite the quests stating it was on an island...
  • StudentOfTheGoddessStudentOfTheGoddess
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    Albey and Heide are said to be the same in the lore. Same with Ben Chenner being a volcano (but only while Elchulus is asleep), when you face Enzo it's in the same place you face Lugh, the difference is that Elchulus was still sealed during the Enzo fight, but was awakened during the fight with Lugh. After Elchulus was released the vocalno turned back into being a normal mountain. This is also part of the lore.
    Rezi
  • RhapsodyOfFireRhapsodyOfFire
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    edited September 7, 2017
    Silentine wrote: »
    Translating the writing from the map is extremely difficult if possible. I tried to see if I could match the writings with some Celtic languages but it turned out extremely hard for me. If anyone could make out something out of it, I would be happy to listen.

    Many runic alphabets use similar letters. The Old Hungarian alphabet that i know a little also matches some letters on the map. I think what's written there doesn't have any significance and is just gibberish.

    They do the same in many artworks because they don't have the time to hire a language expert to write down something translatable that most people wouldn't even notice or understand. It would only make sense if they included the translation in the story.

    Btw it could also be the name of the shore or the sea or some boundary because if you noticed there's another writing on a ridge/mountain.
    Rezi
  • ReziRezi
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    edited September 14, 2017
    OMG

    You know that river right near Taratha? Do you see how it's curved? Now look at the river near Tara - it's the same curve. Taratha must be ancient Tara - Vindi's map is to the west of Mabi's! And if Avon was once where Tir Chonaill is (I think that was in Mabi lore somewhere) and Avon was the city of the Partholonians, then Partholon is to the far northeast of Vindi's map!

    Uladh.png

    32FDXGA.png

    Yeah, I know it's headcanon, but it really would make a lot of sense.
  • SirRFISirRFI
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    edited October 30, 2017
    Here's flat map as seen in ortel, zoomed in 3 times (click on the image for full size)

    ohtuM7A.png

    Notes:
    • Unknown Region isn't story or location related. These are more of a in-game stories (like the Ancient Dragon stories) or filler content. That being said shouldn't be considered in placing in the map.
    • Nilfheim is said to be Fomorian underworld, but feels like filler content, that might as well be not in physical world.
    • Some places are slightly moved on the map, depending on which category is browsed. Was also a thing before merging all boards together.
    • Hoarfrost Depths is probably not accessible from outside. In both White Tyrant battles there's entrance for it.

    Questions:
    • Why we always arrive to Ainle in middle of the night, if it's literally on the other side of the river from Colhen? Probably because reasons, but in Catacombs story we are in haste to arrive there before it gets dark, despite being a bit further.
    • After prologue, we are sent to Perilous Ruins for training. The argument between Marrec and Gwynn is still there, despite the ruins being quite far actually. Everyone would imagine the ruins were supposed to be pretty close actually.Also, they are close to battle front.

    Mabinogi:
    • I am unfamiliar with it, never played, but several things in Vindictus lore mismatches Mabinogi, so they are probably not connected.
    • There's probably nothing above Hoarfrost but ocean, until S3 happens - when Ben Chenner appears. This fact is mentioned early S3, and that's probably what we saw in main-menu before Neamhain update (although it could be vision of Donegal).
    Casca
  • ReziRezi
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    SirRFI wrote: »
    • I am unfamiliar with it, never played, but several things in Vindictus lore mismatches Mabinogi, so they are probably not connected.
    • There's probably nothing above Hoarfrost but ocean, until S3 happens - when Ben Chenner appears. This fact is mentioned early S3, and that's probably what we saw in main-menu before Neamhain update (although it could be vision of Donegal).

    If you look at how I turned the map, Ben Chenner would be "west" of Taratha. If Iria was once connected to Uladh, that would make "east" Iria the same as "west" Uladh. In other words, Filia (land of elves) would be in the same place as Ben Chenner (land of elves), assuming that you're correct about Ben Chenner/Berbe replacing the ocean above the S1 map.
  • SirRFISirRFI
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    I researched for what was said early S3. This gives us better idea of where Ben Chenner is exactly, and we can aid ourselves with S3 map.
    Nyle: Where is Ben Chenner? Do you know, Brynn?
    Brynn: Hm...
    Brynn: (Brynn digs out a dusty old book from a cupboard and carefully flips through the delicate pages.)
    Brynn: Ah, Ben Chenner. It's the old name for the mountain north of Fobellow Prairie. No one has called it that since the time of old Morrighan. In fact, this may be the only written evidence of that name...
    Nyle: I've certainly never heard of it, but I know that mountain. It won't be easy to get there. The Royal Army will be prowling the area after that last battle...And they will not appreciate our intrusion. (Nyle pauses, seemingly lost in thought.) Reilly, you knew what this creature was going to ask of us.

    Brynn: Good timing. I've located some very interesting information on Ben Chenner. Much of the research on wood elves conflated their disappearance with the rise of the Fomors. However, those timelines do not match. The wood elves disappeared long before any Fomorian set foot near Fobellow.

    Callidus: We have always been here, magician. In the past, the present, the forgotten, and the future that will not come. We are there. Always...
    Some things appeared with S3, there's no doubt about it, but unsure whether the land actually did or not. Not that it probably matters, because nobody was bothered with these areas before.

    Knowing where Ben Chenner is adds a lot of background. The river that goes next to Hoarfrost can be likely seen in S3 map (maybe we even use parts of it in Ben Chenner Trailhead), which also explains why we can use Ferry to Berbhe Downtown. Top edges of the map and Donegal battles strongly suggest that the continent ends there, so probably S3 main screen was referring to these.

    In speak of Ben Chenner - why battle preparation for battles from that region are carriages while it's possible to near the mountains with boat? Because we need horses to travel further from there?
  • ReziRezi
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    SirRFI wrote: »
    In speak of Ben Chenner - why battle preparation for battles from that region are carriages while it's possible to near the mountains with boat? Because we need horses to travel further from there?

    I think the carriage is actually in-between Colhen and Rocheste, so it's likely just an oversight.