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Advice for Improvement?

CloakshireCloakshire
Vindictus Rep: 2,200
Posts: 246
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edited October 17, 2017 in Hurk
A long time ago I uploaded a video of me playing Vella and I got some fairly good feedback that has improved my game. Not too long ago I picked up Hurk and would like any advice on where I can improve based on the video here. I uploaded this quite a while ago and had intended to make this post sooner.



I feel like I'm performing fairly well considering that I haven't been playing Hurk for that long. Seeing that my Hurk isn't as powerful as most typical level 95's, I try to play more supportively by consistently deflecting the boss to which I have received a small handful of compliments. I figure that if I can't output a bunch of damage I might as well make it easier for others to do so.

Comments

  • EvLEvL
    Vindictus Rep: 540
    Posts: 19
    Member
    You have a good grasp of the basics with Hurk, the one thing i didn't see you do much of is animation cancel Full Moon with Ultimatum. It wasn't really needed with this boss but it can open up a new variety of options for you as well as more dps. By options i mean, Crescent then Full moon, ultimatum then dodge or blockade an attack or continue a combo string. You can also ultimatum to do a fast deflect during a combo if you see an attack coming your way.

    You do a lot of double judgment which is nice, but i didn't see you pull off Hurks most damaging reflect combo. Which is reflect then active execution.

    I didn't see you do instant blockade much, if at all, but it's also not really needed for this boss.

    All in all to me you have a good grasp of the basics, good enough for you to begin to learning and practicing Hurk's advanced moves which you should practice on s3 raid bosses either in Solo normal or in Ein Lacher where they match your stats or even practice on mission bosses in s3 llike in Berbie or Donegal.

    You also Full Moon a lot into the boss, but it's better to Full Moon going left or right instead of forward into the boss. If you Full Moon going left or right the animation is faster and it can place you in a spot for better positioning.

    For instant blockade practice, i recommend Zecallion. Any of the Nilfheim bosses will do but Zecallion has the best music <3 Epic fight.

    As for learning Hurks advanced stuff... I'll have to recommend you to RudeGamerz. He has very indepth Hurk Guides especially his last updated one.



    Another very important thing to know with Hurk is to use normal attacks if you know a boss attack will come soon because you can instant blockade when you do any normal attack and reflect.

    Hurk is easy to play and hard to master and in season 3 they made all the bosses harder to deflect because Hurk dominated in season 2 so you need boss knowledge and advanced Hurk mechanics to straight up rekt in s3.

    There's also a very advanced guide on Hurk that was written by an EU player on the EU Forums some years back that's very in depth. If i can find it i'll link it to you.... but RudeGamerz guide will definitely put you on the right path to become a top tier Hurk.

    You can also watch Hurk solo's on Youtube to pick up some of the advanced combo strings/movement.

    Another thing to is you should use execute more, as execute and massacre is our top way of gaining SP. Usually most use execute, there are times when you may want to massacre to get SP very fast to land a very damaging combo. Massacre gives it the fastest but leaves you open to attack so most opt for execute.

    The more SP you have the more ultimatums you can use which gives you a much stronger dps and staying power/survivability in front of bosses.

    Hmm... off the head i can recommend Poppy Jr, Crevlis, Raintear, Gavram and Raime. There's some other top tier Hurk videos up there just cant remember their name's at the moment. Check out their solo videos and you'll see the advanced stuff. All in all good video though, very good video. Your not bad, your not bad at all.

    Hope this helped.

    If you have any specific questions or things you might have questions about in game just whisper me Ev1L. I'm on East.


  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 2,200
    Posts: 246
    Member
    edited October 18, 2017
    EvL wrote: »
    You have a good grasp of the basics with Hurk, the one thing i didn't see you do much of is animation cancel Full Moon with Ultimatum. It wasn't really needed with this boss but it can open up a new variety of options for you as well as more dps. By options i mean, Crescent then Full moon, ultimatum then dodge or blockade an attack or continue a combo string. You can also ultimatum to do a fast deflect during a combo if you see an attack coming your way.

    You do a lot of double judgment which is nice, but i didn't see you pull off Hurks most damaging reflect combo. Which is reflect then active execution.

    I didn't see you do instant blockade much, if at all, but it's also not really needed for this boss.

    All in all to me you have a good grasp of the basics, good enough for you to begin to learning and practicing Hurk's advanced moves which you should practice on s3 raid bosses either in Solo normal or in Ein Lacher where they match your stats or even practice on mission bosses in s3 llike in Berbie or Donegal.

    You also Full Moon a lot into the boss, but it's better to Full Moon going left or right instead of forward into the boss. If you Full Moon going left or right the animation is faster and it can place you in a spot for better positioning.

    For instant blockade practice, i recommend Zecallion. Any of the Nilfheim bosses will do but Zecallion has the best music <3 Epic fight.

    As for learning Hurks advanced stuff... I'll have to recommend you to RudeGamerz. He has very indepth Hurk Guides especially his last updated one.

    Snip Video

    Another very important thing to know with Hurk is to use normal attacks if you know a boss attack will come soon because you can instant blockade when you do any normal attack and reflect.

    Hurk is easy to play and hard to master and in season 3 they made all the bosses harder to deflect because Hurk dominated in season 2 so you need boss knowledge and advanced Hurk mechanics to straight up rekt in s3.

    There's also a very advanced guide on Hurk that was written by an EU player on the EU Forums some years back that's very in depth. If i can find it i'll link it to you.... but RudeGamerz guide will definitely put you on the right path to become a top tier Hurk.

    You can also watch Hurk solo's on Youtube to pick up some of the advanced combo strings/movement.

    Another thing to is you should use execute more, as execute and massacre is our top way of gaining SP. Usually most use execute, there are times when you may want to massacre to get SP very fast to land a very damaging combo. Massacre gives it the fastest but leaves you open to attack so most opt for execute.

    The more SP you have the more ultimatums you can use which gives you a much stronger dps and staying power/survivability in front of bosses.

    Hmm... off the head i can recommend Poppy Jr, Crevlis, Raintear, Gavram and Raime. There's some other top tier Hurk videos up there just cant remember their name's at the moment. Check out their solo videos and you'll see the advanced stuff. All in all good video though, very good video. Your not bad, your not bad at all.

    Hope this helped.

    If you have any specific questions or things you might have questions about in game just whisper me Ev1L. I'm on East.


    The funny thing is that I actually know you in game lol. My hurk's name is Izzysparks, but you probably know my spear lann Siax better. The one with the black/red ivory spears. Kinda ironic that we'd meet here too lol.

    Let's see, I'm gonna try and reply to your points in order so here goes.

    Ult Cancelling: When it comes to Ultimatum cancelling, I'm aware of what it is, but I can never seem to have enough SP on hand to both reliably UC and be able to constantly deflect. Seeing as I love to deflect as often as I can, I usually don't keep a full bar of SP, so after I UC a time or two, I'm usually down to so little SP that I can't deflect. I guess I would need help when it comes to SP management or generate more. A good example would be @ 2:14 in my video; I was trying to Ult so I could parry Cromms punch, but lack of SP kinda ruined that lol. I pulled it off at 2:30 though :)

    Double Judgement: Oh this thing took me forever to get the grasp on, but a kind Hurk on east showed me how to do it so I'm okay in this area I think. Granted I can't do it 100% of the time & it seems to work more often when I have less bars to my host. Couldn't really do it as often as I would have liked in the video though due to my lowered fps from recording. But if there's a trick for 100% consistency I'd definitely be interested.

    Execution: I don't use it but in this particular video, I was more focused on using my SP to deflect plus I didn't have my UI on. I usually try to do Execution as the final hit on my onslaught when I have 5 Awakening, or does it being a part of onslaught make a difference? I also sometimes wail on the boss when someone has it locked down to max out my awakening and use Execution when the boss is trying to get back up therefore extending it's down time. Methinks this practice doesn't do as much damage but for party support, what do you think?

    Instant Blockade: That's where you blockade without any direction key being pressed right? The one you can chain by Blockade>Normal>Blockade? I'm aware of this, but I definitely need practice. The rhythm is where I need to work on this & I'll give Zecallion a shot like you suggested. I take it that his 4 hit swing combos & shield rush are the moves to practice against?

    Full Moon: Ah, I see. Since full moon only hits once, there's no need to have the full swing go through the boss. That's just more hit drag which means more time waiting to resume attacking. By "grazing" the boss with full moon, I still get the hit, but have faster recovery because I'm not waiting on the sword to cut all the way through.. Good tip & Noted!

    Normal Attacks: I never really noticed that you can instant blockade from any normal attack. So it's kinda like how Ult can cancel any smash, blockade cancels any normal. This will come in handy. Although, this does raise a question which I'll bring up in my Massacre point.

    Execute/Massacre: While I feel like I'm executing enough, mainly b/c of the whole execute>crescent>full moon combo, Massacre is an oddball move for me. I've noticed that it's an SP generating machine of a move, especially in groups of mobs, but I rarely ever used it for 2 reason. You'll see my use it at 0:55, and I think that was a proper use, but it was purely accidental. At 2:05, I'm set up to use it again, but I strayed from it and instead dashed around. For me, Massacre seems like a risky move because of what can follow it. a) Getting stuck in a Massacre loop by repeatedly smashing; b) Normal attacking with that slow over head swing that slams the ground in front of you leaving you open; c) Cancelling out of it by not doing anything resulting in the tired animation. All three outcomes never really appealed to me, but you mentioned that Blockade can cancel any normal attack. Will it also cancel that normal as well?

    I think that's all the major stuff that would warrant a forum reply & everything else I can probably just ask in game. See ya around Ev1L.
  • EvLEvL
    Vindictus Rep: 540
    Posts: 19
    Member
    edited October 26, 2017
    Sigh, i seriously need to learn how to quote and all that on the forum. I read through it a lot but don't post much.

    It's good to talk to you again, it's been awhile :D I could have waited until you were in game but i figure a forum reply will help all the other Great Hurks wishing to learn a bit more or get better. So here goes:

    Regarding Ultimatum and having enough SP. One of Hurk's bread and butter combo strings and quickest SP generator outside of Massacre is: Execute, Crescent, Normal Attack, then Execute again. This allows you to build SP extremely fast while maintaining aggressive strong attacks and mobility. You will see people lead into the combo in one of two ways, they'll either use a running charge execute and start from there or they'll do two normals then smash into execute and begin the string.

    You'll see many high level Hurks do this for SP Gain and Damage, Execute can also initiate a reflect if timed right and the tip of execute connects with an enemy attack.

    Ultimatum is generally where you dump most your SP as Hurk to do more damage, deflect, or evade an attack. For SP Management you want to definitely be using the execute, crescent, normal, execute combo string to keep SP very high and knowing how much sp Ultimatum and Onslaught takes. You'll find yourself having much less issues with SP management. Now Massacre to me is like a one off moment where you need extremely high sp fast while being careful not to leave yourself open to get hit. For instance say, Braha is about to do his bomb mech and you need alot of SP to attack after you cross over or everyone survived Lugh's party wipe move and now has the speed buff and you want SP to use Terminus to hold him in place so they can whale on him. That's a supportive playstyle there, other times are when you need SP fast and your fighting Glas in Temple of the Fallen Moon while his barrier is off and once again need SP to use your ult to hold him in place.

    Times like these Massacre comes in handy very fast so it's why i say one off moments, you'll find times where you just need a crap ton of SP for something you want to do and Massacre can give it to you.

    Regarding Double Judgement, there's a few ways to do it so i won't tap into there RudeGamerz shows you how and if i remember there's another video on Youtube that shows you another one or two ways to do it. As for the most consistent even I don't know which way is best to initiate it.

    As far as Active Execution goes, awakening can give a big damage increase and Onslaught gives a 50% damage increase so when you put those two together with an Active Execution the damage is immense, especially if it crits. I can't remember why but Active Execution as your fight smash with Onslaught does more damage by itself than using two different smashes and than ending your Onslaught with Active Execution.

    I once thought that, Crescent, Full Moon, and Active Execution did the most damage but my Hurk friends who are all top Hurks taught me otherwise. Using five stacks of awakening, the 50% Damage bonus on top of Active Execution as your first smash is no doubt our strongest hitting move combination right now. You can test it for yourself. and if you crit the damage will make you smile as you see the boss hp just drains.

    (Quick Note: Although Revenge says it adds damage to your next smash it does not add damage to Active Execution but your Awakening Stacks will.)

    On the note of Instant Blockade, the reason it's called instant is because it cancels your normal attacks and instantly blockades. To begin to master this you and other Hurks have to understand that when you move forward and hit space or whatever your blockade key is, your initiating Impenetrable and not blockade.

    There is 3 ways to do a blockade, stand still and hit your dodge key and this will do a Blockade.

    The second way is to do a normal attack and while not pressing any directional key and then hit your dodge, this will cancel your normal and instantly do blockade. The higher your atk speed the faster your blockade.

    The third way, and you'll see this often from good Hurks and in Hurk solo's, They'll hit back and dodge, this will make them move away from the boss using Impenetrable, then they'll hit forward and dodge, and this will make them move back to the Boss but using Blockade. To try to initiate an Onslaught or to soak up incoming damage this is the only time you can press any directional key and initiate a blockade. Impenetrable in one direction and blockade in the next.

    Attack Speed really helps a lot regarding blockade.

    On the topic of Full Moon, It does only hit once and you generally want to cancel with Ultimatum and either continue a combo string, do an onslaught reflect, or dodge or iframe an attack.

    The one thing i mentioned that you didn't on reply and i'll mention again for you and other Hurks. If you don't cancel Full Moon with Ultimatum, Do your Full Moon to the left or the right as it has less frames and is quicker than Full Moon going forward into the boss. You'll see many good Hurks do it if you watch carefully.

    I'll leave another two tips and some insight that are extremely important for Hurks. Tip number one is to understand the full length of your blockade before you take yourself out of it. This was one of the major issues i had where i didn't understand how long my Impenetrable or Blockade would last before i would take damage. There would be times also where i would be in the midst of my Blockade or Impenetrable and click or do something and take myself out of it and get knocked silly. I suggest you go into a battle and fight a boss and only practice doing Blockade, Impenetrable, and Instant Blockade. Getting these three down pack will make you a VERY strong Hurk. Those 3 things are your defense and strongest attack in one.. Your damage reduction and your onslaught initiator and even hp healer.. mastering those is paramount to being a skilled Hurk.

    The next massive tip is what i call the spin out. The accidental Massacres that'll have you laying on the floor dead . This happens from not knowing Hurks attack and smash strings and from not knowing the 2nd and 3rd attack visual difference. I'm not going to go into his attack and smash order that's another long post in itself. What i'm going to do is give you a few quick tips on how to avoid it or get out of it.

    If you accidentally do it, don't hit smash again and do it twice, jut hit a normal attack , and then smash! It'll take you straight into a crescent and then you can keep dpsing from there.

    You can also hit Ultimatum and either reflect, dodge away, or go into crescent and full moon or crescent, normal, than execute from Massacre. Massacre is the only normal attack that cant be canceled with instant blockade. Your pretty much animation locked outside of using Ultimatum. It's worth noting Ultimatum will immediately cancel Massacre at anytime in the spin.

    I had to come back and edit this post to tell you how to avoid it, by learning the visual cue. Hurk's second normal attack begins on the lower left and ends on the higher right side of him. Hurk's third normal attack begins on the HIGH upper left and ends on the lower right on the right side of him. Once you memorize how those two attacks look it'll only take you a second to know if you should smash or not, if your last normal attack was HIGH upper left you smash into Massacre. Knowing those 2 visual cues can keep you from taking a ton of damage and dieing.

    Also, from my experience you'll see people say Attack Speed isn't important for Hurk well they are wrong. Attack speed for us doesn't translate into direct damage as per say it would an Evie. Attack speed for Hurks increases your potential for damage based on skill when you get to a certain point in your character because your attack speed will increase your instant blockades, blockades, and impenetrable. and movement speed. Which will allow you faster mobility and speed to clash into bosses more when you see openings or attacks you can reflect and initiate major damage with onslaught while also allowing you to get more hits in. You'll have to find that sweet spot for yourself.

    Pre Rise it was also okay to build Hurk with Enthu for the balance and to stack fast ES for attack speed. These days using Expeditionary is much better since raid bosses hit alot harder, a Hurk having high Defense and Damage Reduction with Hurk Self Heal and Hp Potions can make him a straight up berserker that's extremely hard to kill while still dishing out massive damage. You'll see most top Hurks with either two Expeditionary ES or one Expeditionary and one Enthu.. it's rare to see Hurks still with enthus now unless it's lvl 90 gear builds from pre rise still on there character.

    Okay it's time for me to raid people been asking me to come for the longest, If you have any other questions post msg me in game and if your a new Hurk and have questions your welcome to post in here or msg me also.


  • X1Guts1XX1Guts1X
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    So far I've seen some really good feedback and responses. I just want to add one thing, and only because after the Hurk "buff" I think it will be even more pertinent.
    Vortex
    This ability has already been bufffed, and will be getting buffed again in a future patch., but even at it's current level it is worth using in niche situations. These situations are when you are unable to attack or are forced to idle. Basically, anytime when you are not sacrificing dps to get up a running start. If you can hit with a full Vortex, you can go from No awakening to Yellow level (1 below max), and after the future patch I've heard this will be all the way to max awakening. This is the fastest (time wise) way to increase awakening, and again, if you are able to get a running start during an idle time, this is also a great way to build up SP.

    An example of when I use it is during Eochaid, as you are coming down from the clifftop after the metor drops. Drop a little early, get a running start, and as soon as he lands unleash a full Vortex. Experience will tell you when this is useful and worth using.

  • CloakshireCloakshire
    Vindictus Rep: 2,200
    Posts: 246
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    edited June 4
    Just showing how I've improved as Hurk over these past months.

    I picked the same boss as the first video the the initial post, but there's some notable differences.
    --Cranked up to Hero Mode
    --Zero HP Potions Used
    --Did the final phase perfectly with no "hits."