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Fatigue System - Ideas on ways to recover

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  • GoatanksGoatanks
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    Yeah, I don't like it either but there's still other things to do in the game right?

    Does anyone still fish in this game? - Maybe cooking food from expertise could help lower Fatigue as well.

    Perhaps Fatigue System was a way to get more players to play PVP. - Winners lower their Fatigue, losers get more Fatigued lol
    SwornKnightStrangerina
  • AsannamiAsannami
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    Kurs wrote: »
    One thing I'd like to add too, is that people always assume Nexon's money grubby. It may be true, it also may be false. But I think if all people look for is the negative, then all they'll find and see is the negative. I prefer to try to see the whole truth if I can, and I think if I assumed everything was Nexon or the employees being money grubby then I think that would be hard for me to see, and hard for them to change, especially if no matter what they do all people will see is "they're money grubby". After all, if everyone but the whales boycott them then they can't change because they still need money. However, if everyone gives them a chance and enough people other than whales spend money, then that gives them the opportunity to change and expand their options, since then they'll have more sources of income to keep the game running. That's what I think anyways.

    Ofc we only see the negative. What good comes from limiting your playerbase from actually playing as they want? I too try to see the good in things, but there's nothing good in this. "New content will use the fatigue system to improve things" why? why do we need this to improve anything?

    There are other things in the game that need improvment, like the leveling. Many new players give up, because the low levels dont feel meaningful, are too easy and feel like a drag. why isnt that being fixed instead? Why is the RNG of drops still so bad? now's it's even worse, because you are limited in what you can do.

    Why don't we see more sets going on the NX store, so the people that can't spend 450 euros on crystals can get new sets? When was the last time we even got a new set there?

    And there are many others flaws, but you know what? I do approve some improvments they made with time, like the reforging, being able to get a 100% scroll if you fail too many times, and so on, you know, stuff that actually makes the lives of players better, and if they were implemented earlier, we might not have lost so many people as time went on. But going back to the fatigue system, this in no way makes anyone happy. I have my main character, and i don't care about playing with alts, so this just ruins the game for me. I've been away from the game for a while, and this system just makes me want to give up in the game.

    Now, please, tell me, can you think in any way that this thing will improve the game in a way that not having it couldnt? Be honest, because i can't see any reason future content needs this.
    StrangerinaaylbdrSwornKnightTwln
  • aylbdraylbdr
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    edited February 26
    Sorry, I'm not sticking with nexon on this one. Just remove the system (before it does a lot more damage), period.

    And stop lying about it being to stop the bots nexon. Only the non-observant don't know for sure that's absurd because bots don't farm low levels, and most of us are convinced you are the only "botter" left in the game anyway. If bots had been farming low levels, then honest players wouldn't have been farming them because the bots would have wrecked that market too.


    I won't go further into it and how we know what's really going on because some of the things your "botting" has done have made playing this game more enjoyable, and as much as I hate that the economy is dead and hard for new honest players, things are in some ways much better... or well, they were better until a couple days ago you dropped the listings of essences and ores etc to 2 pages instead of 20 - 40 pages in a sad attempt to make the ignorant believe this outright lie about this system stopping bots.


    Listen, anyone here who has a brain wants nexon to be successful, so I'm not trying to put a damper on their income. Quite the opposite in fact, I love this game so I reeeeeaally want nexon to succeed. But there are plenty of ways for them to make more money legitimately. And they are ways that would keep the games player base more active and happy too. A happy customer will be a committed customer. Stop making your customers sad and your income will be less sad too. Simple.

    Most companies do things like have sales. Why not make more outfitters (something I personally know is stupidly cheap for them to do since I'm a game modder), take some of the old gacha outfitters like Regina and sell them in the outfitter shop, and reduce the cost of old outfits that have been in the shop forever already. Seriously, these are solid, tried and true marketing techniques that would absolutely increase nexons profit margin. I'd buy more outfits myself, and I'm 100% positive that many others would too.
    SwornKnight
  • KursKurs
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    edited February 25
    @Asannami
    The way I see it is people are too quickly to jump on negatives while ignoring positives, so once a negative comes up people will go straight towards quitting or boycotting etc while ignoring other things. I have so many issues and questions towards that. Also, from my experience there are many things in life that seem bad at first however in the end or in the long run they ended up having good consequences or being something I appreciated, so I learned to never jump to conclusions because sometimes there are aspects of things I just never think about. So that's how I'm handling things and am definitely against quitting or boycotting right now. I'm also thinking that Nexon's employees want the game to succeed, they probably understand that their job probably effects other peoples jobs, and failure could get people fired or something. And I'm assuming that Nexon's employees are people like us and not complete idiots. Sure they may make mistakes like us, so giving ideas and suggestions are good, and maybe they're wrong about things they shouldn't be like the damage formula. However, if all we do is hate, boycott and quit when they don't do everything we suggest, that says we don't trust in them, we don't trust in their intelligence, and we don't respect them, and we're just perfect and smarter than them among other things. And to me that's a dumb thing to do. Confidence in yourself is good but... yeah.... That's kind of what I think. There are many things I haven't considered or thought of, and assuming that I'm the smartest person, and that the reasons I've thought of are the only possible reasons there are doesn't usually work out well for me. I think give suggestions and ideas, but don't quit or boycott if they don't do everything you want, maybe it's good to give Nexon's employees a chance, they seem to be trying to work hard to me. Part of a game dying is the players and their reactions and mentality too. If they quit over every little thing immediately well... that seems kind of dumb to me
  • aylbdraylbdr
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    Kurs wrote: »
    @Asannami
    The way I see it is people are too quickly to jump on negatives while ignoring positives

    I totally understand that a positive outlook is a great thing to have. I have always been a person who is predisposed to looking on the bright side of life myself. But when someone bends you over and uses you non-consensual like, it's not the time to support them. You get I'm saying here? If you show support for such things, then you're basically asking to be abused.

    Positive attitudes also can take the form of a negative reaction towards mistreatment too. To stand up for oneself and others is a positive thing, and often that means we need to complain or take even harder roads of defense as in the case of government/corporations stealing our rights, or as a more intense example, when war is made upon us. If someone punches you in the face, do you try to find the positive side and let them keep punching you? Somehow I doubt you would.

    Now I'm of course not saying this is anything close to war, but it is mistreatment at the very least, and now is time to stand up for yourself and your community. In fact, this is standing up for everyone involved, including nexon who stand to lose the most monetarily.


    To defend oneself, and especially to defend others, is not just a positive thing, it is commendable. ^-^


    Asannami
  • AsannamiAsannami
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    edited February 25
    Kurs wrote: »
    @Asannami
    If they quit over every little thing immediately well... that seems kind of dumb to me

    I find it dumb too. I've been around since 2013, i've seen the bad and the good, and i never left before, but this is different, this is taking away the freedom to play like we used to, and for what? Where is this grand plans that requires them to limit how people enjoy their game?

    Let's see it in other way. If this system is so good and will do wonders in the future, why are they giving more potion with events? What's even the point of a fatigue system if they will give away potions to negate the bad effect the system is causing in the community, or trying to at least If the system is so pointless that they can do that, why have the system at all?

    Korea had the fatigue system since forever and im not seeing any pro on their side compared to us not having it, we just weren't limited, so, i have to ask you again, what kind of content do you think is so good that needs this? How does a system like this improve the game at all? What are the positives of this?
    i'm just asking you to answer that, because i can't think of anything.

    And we have the right to be angry about this. We never wanted the fatigue system, and people are just voting with their wallets, or in many cases, their time, by just leaving the game is disgust by this decision from nexon. Honestly, i don't blame anyone that does it.
  • KursKurs
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    edited February 25
    For me, it's not about having a positive attitude, it's about trying to look at the whole picture, not being restricted to old habits, or stereotypes and assumptions or lack of knowledge. I don't think the Devs are trying to kill Vindi, and I don't think they're complete idiots. They seem to have something in mind, and if they read and consider player feedback and still keep the course then chances are they have there's good intention behind it that hopefully makes it worth it. So for me rather than quitting or boycotting them I think it's good to see what they have in mind.

    If you want a good reason behind the fatigue system then I can't give you one. Maybe it's just immersion. But I don't want to restrict myself to only my knowledge and intelligence. Sometimes games and conversations between developer and player base should be give and take. Nexon listens to our suggestions and considers it as best they can, and we give their ideas a chance and trust they're not idiots and maybe it ends up actually be something good. Because sometimes for me at least there were things that I thought I would hate that I ended up liking, and sometimes it takes time, but after some times I appreciate it. So hopefully they do have a good reason for it that makes it absolutely necessary. However, I still don't think boycotting or quitting is something someone should do and they obviously know most people hate it at first glance. So I say if you have enough fatigue potions to continue playing like normal then do so. Play like how they want you to play and let's see what they have in mind. After all, if things are pretty much the same, just you have to use potions now then I don't really see too much of a problem. But if you're a new player and this poses problems then I'd say give ideas etc.
  • aylbdraylbdr
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    Kurs wrote: »
    For me, it's not about having a positive attitude it's about trying to look at the whole picture, not being restricted to old habits, or stereotypes and assumptions or lack of knowledge.

    But you are refusing to see any of the negativity, so that's actually limiting you from seeing more than half the picture. The fact is, that your refusal to consider the negative is stopping you long before you are even able to see (and therefore logically consider) the picture as a whole. Basically, you are working from the bias of an assumption that people all have good intentions. As much as I and most others wish this were true, it is a simple fact that that is far from the truth, and far from realistic.

    And again, having a positive attitude towards being mistreated only puts a "kick me" sign on your back. Assuming everyone who works for nexon has good intentions is unwise at best. They are humans just like us, and some humans do have ill intentions, that is simply a fact of life. If it were not a fact, we wouldn't have war, murder, and theft etc etc. In fact, nexon has a bad reputation for a reason, because their track record is worse than average.

    Not saying there are good and wonderful, even perhaps wise people working for nexon, but wise people get fired from jobs all the time for making too much sense. The human ego (although necessary for us to survive) often takes one far beyond being even reasonable, let alone keeping good intentions.


    AsannamiBlueRappyDancingStarTwln
  • AsannamiAsannami
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    Kurs wrote: »
    They seem to have something in mind, and if they read and consider player feedback and still keep the course then chances are they have there's good intention behind it that hopefully makes it worth it. So for me rather than quitting or boycotting them I think it's good to see what they have in mind.
    If they this big plan that depends on have the fatigue system and it will make the game so much better, why not implement the system when we get those things? Because right now, we haven't seen a single positive thing from this, and when we check what's coming next in Kr, there's nothing there either that needs this to exist. What we got is a system that one one wanted, that is pushing the playerbase away and it's obvious this system didnt come with good intentions, because as soon as it came out, they were selling you fatigue potion on the NX store.

    People hate things that are anti-consumer, and this is one of those things.

    Let's use another example. imagine that during all these years, we didnt have to worry about weapons breaking, neither having to have runes, or chances of failure, and now, all of a sudden they implemented it with the excuse of "The new enhancing system has been implemented to act as an essential element in the various contents to be developed in the future to provide our Mercenaries with higher quality contents" are you really gonna tell me this would have appeared from the goodness of their hearts? Be honest. And please, inserting this system just for "immersion" is such a bad excuse. Sometimes you need to sacrifice a bit of immersion to make something good or fun, and if the system was trying to make the game more immersive, man, it already falied miserably

    Like @aylbdr mentioned, these companies like when there's people like you around, because they can do whatever they want, no matter how wrong, and you would forgive them.

  • KursKurs
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    edited February 26
    @aylbdr oh no, I do see the negativity. However, there's more than enough people pointing out the potential negativity in the issues. So I'm bringing up the other side of the spectrum, because sometimes I think people are too "no no no no no I'm right everything else is wrong" or something to that nature and jump ship for little to no reason. And I believe that at least someone has good intentions due to the changes I've seen in responses etc from Nexon when compared to over the years. And I don't think everyone's an **** and besides that, I don't think they'd try to hurt the game intentionally because their bad work will effect them in the future. So while yes there's ill intent sometimes, you also have to look into the details instead of assuming and jumping to stereotypes which many people even people on here seem to do. war, murder and theft could have been from necessity rather than ill will. The person committing the action needed to steal to survive and prioritized their own survival over someone else lunch. And depending on your values, principles and priorities this may be acceptable or not. But sometimes it's hard for us to understand things because of our current experience and knowledge. But I don't think we should assume that the other person is dumb or bad just because they came up with something else or want to try something new. So isn't it good to not assume someone has ill will, or is stupid just because they work for Nexon? Because if we do then Nexon never can change in our eyes even if they actually do change and do the opposite of what we're accusing them of. And most people when working, or in general don't want to do stupid things.

    @Asannami

    Not everything is immediate. Perhaps the system is to do something that takes time. Maybe this is a preparation phase for something to be implemented in the future and get the variables at a good level. But like I said I don't know, all I'm saying is if Nexon reads our feedback and sees its value and understands it but still goes further with the fatigue system then chances are they have something in mind. And assuming they're idiots, or bad or that the only reasoning we personally can come up with is the only possibilities is dumb to me. While it would be nice to just come forth and say what the reasons are, maybe they don't because they're just the middle man. Or they think that if they give us an idea of what it is people will just hate it without trying it and assume things and put stereotypes on it etc. The community sometimes can be kind of dumb and not just this one. People often think they know everything, while there's still a lot for them to learn. And of course I try to acknowledge that for myself too and what I try to do here.
  • VladinoVladino
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    Ye it's surely because of immersion.

    They want to tell a story about a dragon and global warming (fatigue system). You all know that there is a dragon being kept in the Rocheste. It's a big dragon with even bigger appetite. To feed the dragon they use sheep and cow meat. But the high amount of these animals caused global warming which increased the sea level what caused several floods of Colhen and Barbhe. In addition dragon got diarrhea so there is poop everywhere in the rocheste. Also because the sun is too strong you gotta use special antisunburn oil (VVIP) or sunscreen (VIP) to be able to safely depart into a battles. But the change of climate brought many disasters so tsunami, earthquakes and dangerous storms are more often now then ever. But don't worry kingdom is giving everyone a special drinks to keep us hydrated (fatigue potion). There is only a tiny tiny problem with them. After drinking them sooner or later you gotta find a place to pee and since only the raids got extra 5* toilets no1 really wants to go other missions. There are also mercenaries that don't drink theirs special drink because they save it for worse times or are just too lazy to open the bottle. Those will just sit at their homes and wait for the right dungeon to join a when it takes too long they just give up (log out)

    "But don't be too pessimistic maybe it will be all for good. Only time will tell." Said the great sage @Kurs so maybe we still have hope.

    As for me: I've shut myself in guildhouse and started playing some other games... Waiting for global cooling to come... It's not like that I won't come out again. It just need to get more comfortable outside.
    IcygoddessSwornKnightDancingStarTwln
  • KursKurs
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    WOOOOOOOSHHHHH
  • DancingStarDancingStar
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    Kurs wrote: »
    WOOOOOOOSHHHHH

    Let's ignore for a moment the fact wherever ppl complain/dislike smt (not just this thread) u're there 'not' trying to watch the whole picture but always going against what everybody think and weirdely always following Nexon pov on everything.
    That alone make me wonder who you really are or what's your duty here.

    But ignoring that side aspect, I guess there're some hints which are showing that things aren't going exactly like have been described.

    Fatigue has been described as:

    1- An implementation that act as bots repellant.

    First of all, there're many other ways and alternatives to find bots/macro and ban them without directly involve/punish the other players.
    A lot of other games doesn't make use of the fatigue system yet they works pretty well. While those who use such escamotage
    always give you the option to 'skip' such penalization by paying. Weird uh?

    The curious thing is, if this sytem was designed 'only' against the bots/macro why in the world is directly tied to 2 NX items that u can find in the cash depot??
    Vip and VVIP which cost several NX provide less consume of fatigue which make them precious and the same potions to recover the fatigue are sold for 300NX each one.
    If this was planned only to counter the bots plague why they give you options that can reduce or avoid totally the issue by 'paying some cash' ?
    ^ This by itself give at least a hint about the true nature of this feature.


    2- To be part of future content.

    This part is way more realistic but like someonelse made notice in another thread this also mean that many of the possible good events during the year will be 'replaced' by these filler 'potions events' which not only reduce the amount of actually good events in 1 year but also push ppl to play/work to obtain what?
    ''a chance to play a little longer..'' Yes this is the ultimate prize. Pretty sad.

    Doing all this in a game that barely survive since a few years with a very low playerbase is imo a very risky move.
    You can dare to do that in China or Korea where there are a lot of players that somehow will stick to the game but not here.
    (Yet they don't rely on fatigue system only cause apparently..they have also the anticheating+ captcha + the registration via ID Card/phone which show how the fatigue system alone isn't enough to fight bots, or maybe its purpose never been that at all).


    As for the "they wouldn't try to hurt the game intentionally" ofc they wouldn't try but indirectly they're.
    - Ppl are descouraged and don't feel like to play like before due to the game being too much limitating.
    - Whoever farm something can't farm anymore.
    - If a new player ask for help with their story line nobody will go cause they'll prefer to keep their fatigue safe for their own stuff.
    - A new player that is enjoying the game while leveling get insta blocked at some point due to lack of fatigue points, and eventually get upset or quit.
    - Ppl who fail raids like redeemers or want to practice, or have problems with disconnections lose fatigue points as well killing even more their will to play.

    Add to this that like any other company they might have economic targets and objectives, which usually tend to aim always higher, and this might be an attempt to further step up.
    I can't talk for the future but from what the current roadmap show is quite clear that something there really changed:

    - We had 4 type of armors which would allow ppl to customize their stats build based on their tastes while now we have just one unified. (Less work)
    - New Inners and hair which were produced frequently, now are released quite rarely. (Less work).
    - There has not been any development of dungeons level 100 and there won't be any 105 too. (Less work)
    - Instead they said they will release raids more frequently instead of raids+dungeons designs. (Less work).
    - Recycle old content like ships graveyard (and not only) and change the light color to red to distribute the new mats. (Work close to 0)
    - They switched from monthly direct sales where you could purchase what u want (mostly outfits) for about 30dollars
    to a system of gacha boxes where u can spend even 400dollars and find nothing at all OR if u reach the amount of tickets required you actually
    spent 400dollars instead of the old 30. (More incomes).
    - After all this, add the fact that now you should also 'pay' for an item that allow you to play a little longer. (Slightly more incomes)

    I can see the whole picture from several hints which personally tell me how this game is losing in quality and trying to become just a moneygrab minimizing the
    work and pushing out sales.
    I understand quite well that there a lot of ppl working behind and those ppl need to be paid but you should try to keep both incomes and quality of the game balanced, while the more forward we go the more you can feel how the quality is going lower and the greediness is growing.

    Can you see that as well or u'll keep trying to preach a delusional optimism?
    However i'll look forward to see how this whole thing will evolve...

    (Side note: Must be said and appreciated a lot tho the efforts of the NA department which managed to split the audio language to satisfy the loudly request from a lot of ppl.. One of the few episodes where good willing to improve quality overcame the economic aspects).
    IcygoddessVladinoZeroheartSwornKnightEmerthystdaws360Twln
  • KursKurs
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    edited February 28
    @DancingStar
    oh no, I'm not always there when people dislike or hate. There were many times where I had many things to say but decided not to for various reasons. However sometimes I just feel the need to react. And of course it's going to be defending Nexon. If we're seeing the whole picture, then that means seeing things from every point of view. If the other side has the anti Nexon side covered then what do you think is left? Also to me it's not about being pro Nexon or anti Nexon.

    When comparing other games to this one I would definitely want to talk to you about how the other games are structured if I was to put more thought into it, because that probably would make a difference. However, as for the alternatives to the fatigues system, like I said before I would totally welcome ideas.

    Now whether you or I or right or wrong isn't as big of an issue to me. I think it's great that people have their say, after all people can be imperfect and sometimes they miss details. But that goes for both sides. Now here's the issue with me. Often they jump to conclusions, just go straight to hate, they assume, they only think about sides and me me me rather than the whole picture. If you're against them, they may even go as far as not even reading what you have to say and just assign the stereotypical response to you and assume that's what you are and what you're saying. And this stereotype is usually something stupid, and which is something the other side isn't actually thinking.

    Again I think that giving ideas and feedback is great, however I think there's a major distrust and hate for Nexon. And the responses for any "mistake" they make can be absolutely stupid sometimes in my opinion. I also think that no matter what Nexon does, many of these people will continue to just distrust, hate, and jump on every little "mistake" saying "this is why I don't spend money on the game anymore", or something of the sort (this is what made me say something). So let me call them out on this, what would make you spend money on the game again? What would make you think that Nexon employees are not always just a bunch of money grubbing idiots? Because right now I think the answer for many of them is nothing. And I'm betting makes it hard for Nexon to change, and it makes it hard for the people complaining to take things from a whole picture perspective instead of just me me me me. I also think that quitting over every little thing is dumb. If you like the game then play it. When change comes, give ideas and feedback but stupid reactions like quitting or boycotting on day one without trying or understanding things seems super dumb to me.

    To me it seems like the employees are trying and thus deserve a little bit of trust and not have everyone jump to the conclusion that they're dumb or money grubbing when they don't do exactly what they say. Besides that I don't think quitting and boycotting is a good response.

    So you gave examples of problems etc. Some are good points like the fatigue aspects. But your other points I'd have you look at from a managerial point of view. So let me ask how would you manage the game? Right now, from what I read they're attempting to optimize the game by porting it from 32 bit to 64 bit. This means using completely different libraries. Which if you know how to program should know that this could cause problems because you don't know what's exactly in the code. You also most likely have a budget and need to show profits too. Actually, how about I just go through your list of examples and show a different aspect.

    For your Armor and inners point of view. Let me ask how would you manage that? The problems I see are they probably don't make much money anymore given the introduction of inner armor and hair cupons that came with the gachas. So they probably screwed themselves over with that and can't take it back. Also creating inner armor, and hair takes time and money, and actual creativity to create the designs. And after a while it gets harder and harder to do that because there's only so many ways you can redesign a thong or hair and make it worth buying. Besides that, you have to still make more content since this is a MMO.

    I also thought they were designing and already made new dungeons with Season 4.

    As for recycling content, I would think the reason for this is from the fact that it takes time to actually do things, even more so as the budget or staff is small, or the quality of content is larger. So how would you manage this? After all in the mean time while you wait for the actual content people will complain "there's nothing to do". Or "give us better events". To me the extra content is kind of like an event. So idk how you personally would manage it differently or "better".

    As for switching from direct sale to gacha. How would you fix this. Going back to direct sale is a bit hard especially as the community gets smaller even if Nexon did everything right, since different games come out, or as people get tired of dungeon crawlers. And people quitting over every little mistake and boycotting doesn't seem to make direct sales as feasible either.

    You say that you see the whole picture, and if you can solve those problems then I'd be more inclined to believe you. I mean if you can't figure out a better way then how can you expect Nexon to? Details do matter, and a lot of times I see people stop at the details, which could make a world of difference and change peoples minds. I would totally talk to you about it in game or in the forums or wherever too.
  • RhilinRhilin
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    edited February 29
    What would make me spend money? Personally if they bring TIR coins is a nice start. Not only it will limit the inflation of NX sales but it will be easier to buy the needed stuff like runes. As well removing whatever limitation TIR coins had. Maybe this was the only system that combated the bots effectevly. As well maybe make the charging/gifting NX easier and not have 2-3 premium currencies with limitations.

    Next is removing gatchas and resuming direct sales. If you think direct sales isn't sustainable then gachas are even more unsustainable. Better to have a wider purachasing audience than a handful of whales who are willing to spend loads of money when they don't have the time. Moreover ppl can buy several outfits for several characters rather than saving for that one outfit thats going on sale every 3 years.

    As well add outfits to the outfit shop. You do realise that existed right? There are tons upon tons of stuff that haven't seen the light of day in years.

    Also they can make the interesting events return. I only hear rumours of snowball events during winter time but I can tell you for the time I've been playing, I have not seen it once. Also no ideas? People would gladly tell you what event to make but do they bother even asking? Not really, no.

    Kinda hard to support a game with outdated practises which rely on whales and super whales for their income rather than, y'know most of it's playerbase. Games nowadays are advertise themselves with having no gacah boxes and microtransactions (evne EA) and here we have a game where it goes strong.

    You say it's hard to make new ideas. Maybe if they change what avatars they make a bit you will find there are tons of designes. Most female avatars are half naded, barely dressed swimsuits. I can guarantee you that there is only one single female avatar that has a decent looking hood that had it's 2nd resale in over 3 years, a year ago. Not to mention no cloaks even exist (y'know hoods + capes?). But why would they make new original designes when they can release boss models as wearable outfits.
    Remember when Nexon did contests with outfits designes? When winners actually get impemented into the game and had some NX as prize? When was the last such event even hosted? Or even the writing one?
    Also remember when Nexon had outfits from famous anime? Only NA ever saw those while EU has yet see any in the light of day.
    SwornKnight
  • KursKurs
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    edited February 29
    Oh wow yay someone actually gave some solid criteria.

    We never had TIR coins in NA as far as I know so I never got to experience the effects.

    I rather have direct sales too, but I can see how gacha could be better for them too. So while we hope direct sales would go as well as you think it would the reality may be different, so personally I don't really feel like I can hate them unless I can figure out a better way. But yes it would be nice to have more direct sale stuff.

    I did experience the additional game play events like snowballs and pinata. I liked them because it was different from what I was used to at the time. However, like most things it could get repetitive and I don't think it was as booming as people might expect. Like the majority of the player base wasn't clamoring to constantly be playing it. I liked them, and would love to see more of that. Actually I think when it was first introduced I was able to easily find boats for these mini games.
    But later on, not as much. Also there were times when they did actually listen and reintroduced events. But of course people forget that or don't take notice and go back to complaining. And you don't really need to wait for them to ask in the forums or in the news "Hey what do you want?" You could always just put something in the suggestions section or the forums. Or make a petition and hope you get a good ticket person who will actually do something.

    And would you really constantly buying inner armors if the only change was instead of stripes it was polka dots? After a while I think people would think it's not worth it. I challenge you to create a design, put it on the forums and put a poll asking how many people would buy it, let alone actually like it without just clicking yes to make you feel better. Maybe even go as so far as seeing how long it actually takes to make the textures and models. Who knows, maybe Nexon may use the design or it may give them ideas. But at the very least people can get an idea of how much effort it could take or what problems can happen and understand more of what people have to do. And maybe the profit vs time and money to acquire the licencing and creating the models wasn't enough for NA and EU. I would love crossovers too buuuuuut yeah. This is where players and company have to work together. Company has to trust the players and players actually have to buy so they can make a profit to show to their superiors.
  • RhilinRhilin
    Vindictus Rep: 1,070
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    So you saying 15 people paying $30 in direct sales is worse than one whale spending $400? Also people would be willing to buy stuff for their alts if they were cheap and widely available instead of their mains. Gachas are unsustainable business model and it's only a matter of time they are regulated as more politicians are taking an interest in them. Not to mention some countries have already outright banned them as form of gambling. Ofc Nexon and all publishers like gachas, because they can continue to charge you for the same stuff many,many times above reasonable, often with no limit in how much a person can spend. You can quite literally make yourself to bankrupt and still get nothing for your money.

    Well good for you that you've played them because I haven't for the 6 years that I'm playing Vindictus. There were nice ideas in the past but sadly nobody does them anymore because? What happen to GM logging in? Hosting events? When GMs helped in Royals or was that in EU only? Honestly I haven't seen an interesting event recently nor have the team answered in the various missing cosmetic topics that are growing by the day. Which could bring money but I guess they don't want. Suggestions are mostly ignored so it feels all the more pointless to post them.

    I would actually buy another inner for an alt because I want her tights to be blacker but Nexon doesn't do that. I would buy a more opaque bodysuit inner for my 3rd char but Nexon doesn't give. If but they don't, only making bandages and whatnot. I mean some maybe interested but you could do more honestly. If they can't think of underwear that much then you can google and go to the first online shop.

    Yes it's easy to make designes. I can tell you because only my character which I draw has more original outfits than the majority of the ones we have (she has like 6, along with different santa outfit, do you even know how many santa outfits are already made and just floating in the web?). I don't do 3D modeling so I can't tell you there but surely Nexon has more than 2 people designing stuff right? Or maybe ask the people or countless modders who make 3D models in their spare time how long it takes and how much money it costs. I bet it's not as hard as you making it sound. Hell if they are so devoid of imagination they can look up any number of animes or host any number of contests for artists to design. I can bet that even from the old contests they did there are cool outfits they can use and aren't in the game.

    But when a publisher doesn't think the game is worth investing then it's just a slow death as you can see there's absolutely no marketing no advertising this game to get new people. Solely relying on the playerbase to get their friends but with the mobile game tactics even the players are reluctant to reccomend this game or tell their friends to come back.

    There were so many suggestions back in the EU forums and several character ones, even personally I contributed to a character idea of a summoner. But I have yet to see any suggestions like outfits or characters being implemented (at best options were impemented which is nice but the relationship system s still broken until ???).
  • EmerthystEmerthyst
    Vindictus Rep: 2,680
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    Rhilin wrote: »
    So you saying 15 people paying $30 in direct sales is worse than one whale spending $400?

    To game publishers the 1% is everything. The 1% will pay every time where as the 15 others are a gamble. When you're running a multi million dollar business you always go for the safest option to please the shareholders with consistent and increasing profits. The triple AAA gaming industry has found gacha as their newest secret weapon for gaining a sudden spike in profits for no increased development costs. Essentially employing gambling tactics to drain peoples wallets. With the 1% now funding basically all development costs there is no quality checks and they will regurgitate the same skins that sell over and over. There's no need to innovate when they will buy literally anything. You can argue that gachas saved vindi from being shut down but the current vindi is a hollow shell in terms of what we got in the past.

    In my opinion, the game has a very shaky future more so than anytime people cried there was another vindikiller on the horizon. KR has not released any news for their plan for s4 going forward and looks to just be a rehash of late s3 astera era. The current gearing in KR looks atrocious having minimum stat rolls pre-set for 105 and even further increased steel reforge costs no one asked for this. There's no reason why they need to up the already ridiculous gear curve on astera to an eleven unless they are trying to drag out level 105 as long as possible. If s4 is just another late s3 and gachas actually start getting banned I don't know if this game will last much longer. Fatigue was just the icing on top of the cake.

  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,195
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    edited March 1
    @Rhilin
    I don't get what you're trying to say. It just looked like you just pointed out the reason why Nexon would choose gacha over direct sale.

    Also I think we had a few GM related events in NA but they were very few (Like the event to fight in an arena and if you won you got the peace officer outfitter for free). Perhaps the GM's joined in raids but I've never personally seen them. I know there was one GM at least in NA that admitted to playing on their own time and was in a guild but didn't want people to know who they were. Also I thought the missing cosmetic outfits thread was working, because before that it felt to me there was a drought in new hairs and inners because I was sad we weren't, but after the thread was made we were slowly getting the missing stuff. There was the first time which I remember them posting "due to demand we're releasing blah blah". But do you really need them to always be announcing "hey guys we're releasing this and this because we've seen it in the cosmetics thread" in order for you to notice it and acknowledge Nexon listening?

    I still think it might be hard to come up with new inners. If they blatantly rip off anime or make it too similar, I'm thinking they could get in legal trouble, or it could effect their reputation in some manner. Also I don't know what Anime's you see but usually the designs aren't something all that different as far as inner armors go.

    Also I mean I've seen fan art and some of them are really good. But I'm kind of thinking that these fan arts, if even original are made far and few on the spur in the moment when they get a burst of creativity due to seeing something or some sort. However to do this at a consistent manner, well I think I find it difficult. But hey that's why I'm not complaining, but if you can do that and prove that to yourself and see all the problems that can come up in doing so instead of assuming it's easy (hence why I challenged you to try to actually do it), then you've got skills and that'll definitely help you in the job market and maybe you can actually work for a company and do better what people blame Nexon to be lacking.

    As for your second to last point, you see, to me lots of people just assume, stereotype and only see things that fit their point of view. To me it seems Nexon is investing, I've seen advertisments, and they did try the twitch thing. What else could they do? And to make matters worse you have all these naysayers who will always say the same thing no matter what. You could literally have them say "Nexon needs to advertise" and I'm just looking at an advertisement and thinking ".......". So yeah, it's things like that which make me be more inclined to my way of thinking which so many seem to be against or not understand.

    Now as for your character idea thing. You have to keep in mind that Vindi has a world structure. So if your characters don't fit in the world then they can't really put it in I haven't seen anything summoner related in VIndi. Also it depends on the people running things at the time, perhaps at one point you have employees who don't care, however later on you have employees who do care and those are who you can appeal to. However being all "Nexon sucks and will never change" doesn't make it easy for the employees who do care, and in fact, players who are like that usually turn away potential players themselves, thereby making things worse.

    @Emerthyst
    Wait didn't they already make a first dungeon and boss battle for season 4?
  • WiIliamWiIliam
    Vindictus Rep: 930
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    If their main reason for implementing this was to fight gold bots, then why not make gold useless in this game? Personally, I would remove the marketplace and mailbox so players can't buy, sell , or trade anything. Without a gold economy, then gold bots would have no function. A lot of games do not have features for players to exchange, sell, or give away overpowered gear. If you want good loot, then you'll have to earn it yourself. Stop trying to spend real money to buy stuff that makes you a God in the game and just learn the game mechanics. Otherwise you're just ruining the game for the rest of us when you use bots, hoard all the good loot, and take advantage of others who don't know any better.

    Nexon needs to figure out how to make money without scaring away the current population. New Consoles are being released at the end of the year - This is the perfect opportunity to enter markets on PSN, Xbox Live, or Nintendo Switch Online. There's so many things they could do to make money. Nexon could partner up with other companies to advertise Vindictus and appear in crossovers with other games. Why not sponsor official PVP Tournaments with entry fees and stream live matches on youtube or twitch to gain viewers? We're getting sick and tired of limiting our playtime and increasing micro-transactions. Please stop before you kill this game.

    I actually believe they could make great use of the Fatigue System if they can somehow motivate players to interact more and play the unpopular features of this game like PvP, Fruit Festival, or other minigames. I missed the Resenlian's Labyrinth and Boss Brawl but nobody ever played them. Maybe they could introduce more mazes and puzzles or bring back these old games to help reduce boredom and lower the fatigue system. If we had daily quests that guided players to explore more features of Vindictus, the majority of players wouldn't be so heavily focused on the usual dungeon grinds.

    So with the Fatigue System what is there left to do in this game?
    1. PvP
    2. Explore
    3. Socialize
    4. Minigames
    5. Guild Wars
    6. Cosplay
    7. Live Stream
    8. Make Music Videos
    9. Troll
    10. Dance Parties - Hot Springs, Campfires, Guild House Club Basement

    Get creative people; there's plenty of things to do. Hopefully, some of these relaxing interactive activities will help us lower our fatigue points.