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You're going down a path I can't follow

KarijunaKarijuna
Vindictus Rep: 2,465
Posts: 197
Member
edited January 28 in General Discussion
Preamble: This small letter is not directed towards any of the members of the Vindictus NA/EU team, I know that you're just following orders from your bosses and have practically no say in what content will be released here.


Dear Vindictus,

I can't believe it's been ten years already, it almost feels like yesterday when I think back to how I tried to play your NA-only version with a crappy free proxy because for some reason they decided to release a EU version more than a year later. Back then I was utterly bored of all the free-to-play tab-target MMOs that flooded the market and was looking for a game with dynamic combat. And you were everything I ever wanted.
Of course you weren't perfect, but back then I could easily look past your flaws. You made me jump over my own shadow and join a guild for the very first time, despite my severe social anxiety and for the first time in a long time I haven't felt lonely on the internet anymore. Through you, I even met the man of my dreams that I'm going to marry in the near future.
I wonder when it all started to go downhill. If it was a specific point in the past, I can't remember it, but in the last couple of years I find myself playing you less and less. The content updates that used to excite me, leave me bored. The fun, interactive events were replaced by attendance and grinding events that barely award anything worthwile.
And now the fatigue points system got added and it's the last nail in the coffin.
This relationship just isn't working out anymore, so this letter will mark our breakup. I hope you will bring enjoyment to those that choose to continue playing you for as long as the higher-ups keep you alive. I have found a new family in a different game and I can assure you that I will be happy there.

Yours sincerely,
Karijuna

Thank you for reading and I hope you have a nice day.
hi5joshToyotaAE85SwornKnightIcygoddessKatlynnJamesGrossaylbdrSaintGuinnessAzurewraithPrototypemindand 5 others.

Comments

  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,185
    Posts: 197
    Member
    They did write an explanation/apology letter too in the news section if it makes any difference.
  • AxxonAxxon
    Vindictus Rep: 1,135
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    Member
    Nexon and Vindictus team always been clear, they never want a system that restrict ''playing''... and you can see it in all their games. Alot of the games they host has some sort of fatigue/restriction system in the original and they always went against it and adjusted drop rates/gold rates etc.

    If they do it, it's because DevCat and The higher up in Korea really forces their hand this time around.

    The potions they give during this event (and the daily) do not expire so it should not affect us at all unless you grind raids lvl 90+ all day everyone. It will only affect a very number of players. Future potions will probably not expire so you can just stack until the day you really want to ''Abuse'' the grind.

    Probably won'T make a difference, but it might clarify for others...

    Don'T forget, only lvl 90+ raids and redeemers are affected. IT will screw up botters too
  • KarijunaKarijuna
    Vindictus Rep: 2,465
    Posts: 197
    Member
    As I said, the fatigue system is just the last nail in the coffin for me personally. I know it doesn't necessarily obstruct normal playing, but in the past we've been assured that we will never get the fatigue system.

    Also, this quote from the fatigue point news:
    The Fatigue Point System has finally been added to Vindictus as well to bring you more challenge and fun!
    Finally been added, huh? Because everyone was so looking forward to having it? The disassociation with the playerbase amazes me sometimes.
    SwornKnightAnnazKatlynnIcygoddessDancingStaraylbdrPrototypemindGhengisJohnAnduriTwlnand 1 other.
  • KatlynnKatlynn
    Vindictus Rep: 1,105
    Posts: 14
    Member
    I have to agree with you, I could look past of all the things Nexon has thrown at us be gachas, horrible drop rates and so on.

    But to implement a fatigue system is just the worst thing they could have done, there is nothing fun about having a system that restricts playing and it won't affect bots instead it will affect legit players and I'm talking from experience.

    I can only hope that they realize that implementing such system is NOT needed nor welcome here in the west and remove it altogether.
    IcygoddessFranBunnyFFXIIDonryuaylbdrSaintGuinnessGhengisJohnAnduridaws360
  • FranBunnyFFXIIFranBunnyFFXII
    Vindictus Rep: 1,660
    Posts: 53
    Member
    I agree. This system is a horrible Idea. After the changes made, removing EX, and horrible voice over replacements that no one asked for...
    And now this.
    This game is just no longer playable.
    It's an egregious mess and a hollow shell of its former self. Nexon just keeps digging.
    How do you go from a becon of innnovation in the mmo indistry to one of the most over grown cash grabs and "you play my way or you dont play at all" games, is a real question of the ages.
    Nexon, you have taken a once great game and commpletely destroyed it.
    Anduri
  • IcygoddessIcygoddess
    Vindictus Rep: 1,400
    Posts: 43
    Member
    Just imagine non-VIP players not earning all their rewards while completing guild missions... For real?

    I thought it wouldn't be such a bad change, until I confirm to myself that every mission takes fatigue away, losing 7% per Cadet Ceremony run and 10% per daily...
    Not mentioned, but amounts are considerable imo / as big as raids (At least RAR doesn't require any).

    I'm just lucky to have VIP on, so cut the fatigue costs in half, and glad to have access to a guild bedroom. 'Cause other than that, I don't if fatigue pots would be enough. But other than that:

    Does this mean every attempt against Brigid is a loss of fatigue? Am I gonna have to plan my runs to be as productive as possible, deciding which raids to stop running, and which low level missions to avoid for the guild missions?
    Or which ones I should do last 'cause the rewards are less worth than the first ones?

    I know it's an attempt to counter bots, but if it means every attempt has to harm players... If it doesn't work, don't put it in maybe?
    I'd rather have bots than a playtime restriction at that point...
    KatlynnaylbdrSaintGuinnessAnduridaws360
  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,185
    Posts: 197
    Member
    edited January 28
    I don't think Brigid losses count. I'm guessing that attempts don't count, only wins for everything. I'm interested to see what future content is going to be implemented that requires it. Or if the intended side effects work out as intended and if it was actually necessary.
  • DancingStarDancingStar
    Vindictus Rep: 1,695
    Posts: 85
    Member
    edited January 28
    @Karijuna
    Karijuna wrote: »
    Preamble: This small letter is not directed towards any of the members of the Vindictus NA/EU team, I know that you're just following orders from your bosses and have practically no say in what content will be released here.

    "Nexon maintains various offices around the world that engage in the publishing and/or development of Nexon's games. Each region's local consolidated subsidiaries are independently managed and are responsible for developing their own strategy for their products and services.[20] The subsidiary that publishes a game does not necessarily indicate the region(s) that a game is available in. For example, some of Nexon Korea's games are published directly by Nexon Korea yet are available worldwide with no separate service published under the local consolidated company's portfolio. "

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexon

    If the description is correct each region have a certain degree of control over their own decisions and strategies.
    In fact EU had XE client and both NA/EU never had fatigue system till now despite korea followed another path.
    That mean they actually CAN decide about that.

    Also the sentence u mentioned "The Fatigue Point System has finally been added to Vindictus as well to bring you more challenge and fun!" other than the word 'finally' being totally out of place also the words "challenge and fun" is a plain troll in everybody face.
    Where exactly should be the challenge and the fun for us by having such thing? It's pure trolling.

    @Axxon

    Devcat have been bought by Nexon and is right now part of Nexon itself since few years ago, their only duty is to create/modify content nothing else. Nexon is the one who decide the economical stuff, events, sales, schedules in short monetize the game in every aspect etc. DevCat itself doesn't mind if we have or not the fatigue system. Most probably they have been ordered by Nexon (NA? KR?) to implement it again.


    @anyone

    I read also the apologize letter but i still don't understand how much and how this can even benefit against bots/cheaters.
    If someone would like to enlight me i'd be glad.

    1. Raids always been limited with or without fatigue. You can do at most 2 raids (1 + 1 vip) and some rare times a few more if u have events extra departures, but you cannot really 'farm' raids all day long at all since ever. So how are the bots are supposed to "farm" raids at all?

    2. I could barely agree that dungeons, especially those from 90 to 95 are unlimited so can be farmed,
    (despite the content of said dgs is quite old and soon will be totally useless) but since the mats for the gear 95 it's still a thing and the same gold mission from every run could represent a chance for botters to farm gold why instead of punishing everyone, even honest players, you don't just put a limit to any single dungeon departure like you already did with the low level dungeons already? Just this would resolve the problem pretty easily.

    3. How should that stop a cheater/botter to farm dungeons/raids if once the energy is depleted they can just switch to the next char of the account or worse next stack of accounts, which would allow them to rotate at least 3 stacks of bots in 3 days? (since the energy reach the maximum at 300% after 3 days of break).

    4. How is this supposed to be necessary due to the fact it gonna be "part of future game content" like they said in that letter?
    In Korea doesn't exist any game content or feature that is linked to the fatigue system. It's just a restriction.

    5. They also assured us that we'll never run out of fatigue and they'll do their best to provide free potions to mitigate the issue.
    That mean if honest players gonna benefit from this, also the cheaters will get such potions to keep playing.
    What did u resolve then?


    Personally what i noticed (and not only me) is that since today:

    - Any player, excluded the casuals, 'need' a vip /vvip in order to be able to play regularly and farm for their stuff.
    This alone literally tie the player to a subtle contract where you must 'pay' to play, like in a monthly subscription.
    Vip items will become more important and push ppl to cash even for those on a monthly plan.

    - Who play vindi know that there're periods when you need a lot of milions to gear up, buy a certain outfit etc and this require
    a lot of time and efforts, but now assumed u can do 20 runs of anything with a vip, you know already those aren't enough if u're
    farming, and u'll be forced at some point to pay gold to buy such potions (they are sold on both marketplace and depot in the other servers) which will end in a loss instead of a gain and giving a very hard time to free players.

    - The free player is forced to switch to alts that they MUST absolutely gear up in order to do the same content they do with their main, which mean a ton of gold and a ton more time needed to gear also the alts, and for the cashers more money to spend on the alts too, while the cheater doesn't give a damn about it cause they can kill a boss even with any char gearless in 1 shot.

    Cashers depend on free players. The casher sell nx stuff in exchange of gold from the free player who farm it.
    This way u're killing the free players, making their life harder cutting down their earnings and demotivate all kind of players in the global.

    I hope someone can show me if there're any possible 'logic' positive outcome from this cause personally all i can see atm is just a shady marketing move which could turn out in a mass leaving from a game that already live desperately thanks to their passionate players but now with this move u're just stabbing them to death.
    aylbdrIcygoddessAxxonKyukodaws360
  • KursKurs
    Vindictus Rep: 2,185
    Posts: 197
    Member
    edited January 28
    my guess for one of the possible benefits is that they'll have future content additions which give fatigue potions. And this might kind of give incentive to play these future content additions more frequently. It might be pvp or something. I'm not too sure, I kind of want to get the current details first and see what I can come up with. Right now I'm kind of focused on beating Brigid, so this hasn't affected me yet.

  • KarijunaKarijuna
    Vindictus Rep: 2,465
    Posts: 197
    Member
    @Karijuna
    Karijuna wrote: »
    Preamble: This small letter is not directed towards any of the members of the Vindictus NA/EU team, I know that you're just following orders from your bosses and have practically no say in what content will be released here.

    "Nexon maintains various offices around the world that engage in the publishing and/or development of Nexon's games. Each region's local consolidated subsidiaries are independently managed and are responsible for developing their own strategy for their products and services.[20] The subsidiary that publishes a game does not necessarily indicate the region(s) that a game is available in. For example, some of Nexon Korea's games are published directly by Nexon Korea yet are available worldwide with no separate service published under the local consolidated company's portfolio. "

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexon

    If the description is correct each region have a certain degree of control over their own decisions and strategies.
    In fact EU had XE client and both NA/EU never had fatigue system till now despite korea followed another path.
    That mean they actually CAN decide about that.

    I'm guessing the change was pushed by either Nexon KR or from the higher-ups at Nexon NA (who most likely have absolutely no clue about the game or it's players) to generate more revenue.

    Also, limiting botting being one of the main reason for the implementation of this system is just BS. Bots can just make a virtually unlimited amount of accounts and change to them whenever fatigue points ran out on one of them. The only thing that'll maybe change is that the stacks of materials on the marketplace will be smaller, but there will be a lot more of them from different bot characters.
    IcygoddessaylbdrDancingStarGhengisJohn
  • SefSef
    Vindictus Rep: 1,300
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    Member
    Icygoddess wrote: »
    Does this mean every attempt against Brigid is a loss of fatigue? Am I gonna have to plan my runs to be as productive as possible, deciding which raids to stop running, and which low level missions to avoid for the guild missions?
    Or which ones I should do last 'cause the rewards are less worth than the first ones?

    Exactly yes. Fatigue is consumed as soon as you enter the battle
    unknown.png

    So if you really wanna **** people over like Nexon did with us by giving us fatigue under the guise of challenge and fun and something great for the playerbase host Special Colru.
    That's 20% gone for everyone as soon as they load in
    then, you the host leave before the raid starts which forces a host migration causing the battle to reload and consume ANOTHER 20% for anyone that didn't leave before the host did
    and so on and so on

    AnnazIcygoddessaylbdrGhengisJohnTwln
  • TennotTennot
    Vindictus Rep: 505
    Posts: 12
    Member
    edited January 29
    I don't care how many potions they give us. If you are going to give us potions why bother giving the fatigue system at all. Oh wait, of course, for the money.
    I can't even do daily things anymore unless I use a potion, not to mention do 30 dailies per week and Ein battles give no rewards anymore, if u discard doing raids that is (or if you use the stupid fatigue pots)
    NOT to mention, that the bed rest reset does not happen when server resets, it happens 24h after the time you have used it! So you have to come back every day! at the same time just so u can get that lousy percentage of rest.

    OH and I forgot, since we can't farm anymore the prices will go even more up. And how do they expect us to earn gold for those 80-100 million scrolls? I am greatly disappointed.
    aylbdrPrototypemindGhengisJohn
  • WilkoWilko
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    Worst part of the fatigue system is they didn't give me back my tokens.
    IcygoddessaylbdrTwln
  • aylbdraylbdr
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    Posts: 28
    Member
    Wilko wrote: »
    Worst part of the fatigue system is they didn't give me back my tokens.

    Fatigue or Token. Only the name has changed. They tried this already and literally everyone hated it.

    I was about to log on this morning after maintenance. Then I read they added the fatigue/token system back. So I closed the launcher and played a different game.

    When they added the Guild Point System, I was so mad at them and have since spent literally every day of my life doing dailies to keep my guild family happy. Because of their short-sightedness and sheer stubborn indifference, I have for 2 years now been doing dailies each day on a dozen characters.

    And so I say to you nextcon: if this succeeds in finally destroying my guild after I have fought your idiotic guild point system every day now for 2 years, you will never see me again.
    DancingStarWilkoAnduri
  • FlameSama1FlameSama1
    Vindictus Rep: 1,960
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    Member
    Well hey guys, we can all rest assured that this will *never* be removed because the main Vindy player base (IE, the people who spent 100 dollars on Neamhain, thousands on outfits, special bra/panty sets, etc) will just use VVIP and never have to deal with this system much. Seeing a game has a small but dedicated player base and then trying your best to hobble them with prohibitive systems that literally benefit no one, Nexon are truly artists when it comes to sabotage.
  • SirRFISirRFI
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    I am also playing less and less, for quite a long while. Not having as much time as before is just one of reasons. Let's see...
    * Game is no longer as fun as it used to be for me after XE/Combo removal (easier and not rewarding good gameplay), and Rise haven't helped up with that
    * Events are more frequent here all the time, due to which they stopped being perceived as such and became less rewarding as well
    * I like S3 battles more than S2, except for few exceptions (especially RNG red attacks or some bs patterns), but I don't feel motivated to do them anymore
    * Cosmetics are basically endgame, and they started to be more and more hard to obtain (lower rates, less sellers, multiplied prices), which made me miss out things I want - also demotivating
    * Addition of fatigue only drags down the situation. We played 6 Brigit battles, 2 of which failed. The day after only 20% fatigue recovered, which is basically 2 any S3 battles.
    WilkoTwln
  • IngkellsIngkells
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    if they wanted to limit bots, they could just limit number of accounts per ip, the number of characters created in 1 day, and then filter out the fastest spammers or biggest marketers. but then how would nexon sell potions? ah shucks.
  • KursKurs
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    I don't think blocking them by ip works as well as you may think.
  • ZeroheartZeroheart
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    Easy way to filter the bots, see how they won. Pretty sure no one can one shot the S3 bosses. Completing a dungeon less than a min. Hell i seen some bots and they belong in a guild.
  • TheDazzIingTheDazzIing
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    Ok xD