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Vindictus Twitch Bounty Fail or Success?

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  • noctrednoctred
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    edited December 19, 2018
    Twln wrote: »
    Meanwhile games like Black Desert Online has these things (minus fun PvE) and they're thriving in population in comparison. As a new player not hopped off nostilga,why stay here when black desert online exist? Despite questionable choices, people gravitate to bdo more.

    As somebody who quit BDO and went back to Vindi twice over the years, I can give you my reason (which is basically the same thing you said in your post) - BDO is a great game but has **** all for engaging PvE content and a combat system filled with wasted potential. Vindictus offers a niche experience which BDO does not offer, and to be frank, which no other game out there offers that I've seen.

    Vindictus has a very narrow focus in terms of what it provides to the player and it does so intentionally. BDO has a much broader focus and is much more of a proper MMO than Vindictus is, again intentionally, and thus will have a greater natural appeal to the average player looking for a typical MMO experience.

    This doesn't make Vindictus bad or worse than BDO. It just makes Vindictus a niche game - it does what it does well, and it does it miles better than BDO.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    CloakshireEmerthyst
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    Byte is a horrible, clickbait streamer. He's lost all credibility with a lot of the gaming community.

    I do agree with the idea that it's clownish of DevCat to dedicate resources to built a MH-style clone on a brand new engine rather than putting efforts into the next iteration or a reboot of Vindictus with modern graphics. It just shows that they don't have a clue about the pulse of what players want. People ask again and again about games that have combat that matches Vindictus, and people admit time and time again that there's just nothing MMO or MMO-lite wise that's on the same level. I can't for the life of me understand why they hate success so much. Players are begging for more content like what Vindi offers with updated graphics and instead DC tries to take on the MH franchise with a focus on mounted combat of all things.

    Why try to get into a new ballgame instead of playing to your strengths? DevCat/Nexon are the weirdest dev house/publisher combo I've ever seen aside from maybe the clowns responsible for relaunching Bless on UR3 as a crapfest then a month later announcing that Bless 2 will be releasing for consoles on UR4. I just can't even comprehend what goes on behind the scenes.
    Emerthyst
  • TwlnTwln
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    edited December 20, 2018
    noctred wrote: »
    As somebody who quit BDO and went back to Vindi twice over the years, I can give you my reason (which is basically the same thing you said in your post) - BDO is a great game but has **** all for engaging PvE content and a combat system filled with wasted potential. Vindictus offers a niche experience which BDO does not offer, and to be frank, which no other game out there offers that I've seen.

    I have seen a lot of people quit Vindictus for BDO. 10 players in my guild alone. Its a matter of preference,yea. Lately BDO started playing with dungeon like missions with Archer's release so Im interested in that. Not hopeful until they hire people to do it. Clearly PvE is their weakness.
    noctred wrote: »
    Vindictus has a very narrow focus in terms of what it provides to the player and it does so intentionally. BDO has a much broader focus and is much more of a proper MMO than Vindictus is, again intentionally, and thus will have a greater natural appeal to the average player looking for a typical MMO experience.


    Thats the double-edge sword of Vindictus game design. It appeals to only a select few gamers who like to dungeon crawl all day . What happens when players get bored of dungeons (in the case of this streamer, it happened instantly)? they quit. There's no in-between content like open world to shake things up.
    noctred wrote: »
    This doesn't make Vindictus bad or worse than BDO. It just makes Vindictus a niche game - it does what it does well, and it does it miles better than BDO.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    While the players gameplay preference is up to ourselves, Vindictus does lack a good amount of players and clearly needs to take action. That conclusion is up to you why this is

    Cloakshire wrote: »
    @Twln I'm sorry, but I can't take anything that Bytestix says seriously after he pissed off the Vindictus community earlier this year in this thread.

    http://forums.vindictus.nexon.net/discussion/14481/vindictus-2018-impressions-review/p1

    I'll take it read later. Cooking food atm lol I dont want it to burn up.

    /Edit Yikes. Think I should make my exit

  • NokaubureNokaubure
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    edited December 20, 2018
    I always had a hard time getting people into this game, reason is the early levels suck. It only gets somewhat good after lvl 60 but reaching that takes hours and they judge the book by its first pages. The true vindi content is at endgame, there's no value in the early levels, and most people who's going to stream it start at lvl 1.
    My solution would be having all skills at rank F by lvl 10 and increase the low level bosses HP a bit so you have time to test all the skills a character has to offer. I can't see how after many years they still don't care to make the early game more interesting, only faster questing and HD perilous ruins.
  • Sir_RenderSir_Render
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    Yea Rise hurt Vindi more than it helped with how it COMPLETELY removed any challenge until level 90 content
    Lets not forget that they removed character slots for raids made them significantly easier to compensate then sold us back the character slots for 300$ each without the player >.>

    The endgame content was unplayable without getting your gear passed +10 which could have destroyed it completely in the process leaving you stranded till you farm more and more and more until you happened to get lucky enough (I've played this game since beta and NEVER got lucky enough to upgrade a gear beyond 10 without Guarantees through grinding...(heck i failed +13 6 times using safety runes and rebind scrolls)) just to experience the content eventually they Updated the level of gear they give the player base to +12 practically nullifying any hard work anyone who struggled put in to get there themselves AND WE STILL CANNOT EXPERIENCE EVERYTHING in fact the grind just became HARDER to match up as they added a stat that doesn't matter just to force more numbers that the player base has to grind up while throwing away everything they worked on because they need ALL the stats to even join a battle

    Which leaves me with about 10 battles I can do a day...everyday....and nothing else

    I honestly cannot express how bad that is or how frustrating it is from my position who had stayed with this game since beta

    Also this game is riddled with pretty important bugs that have never been fixed(Like Vella's Face Tank Crosscut or Dellia's Magnetic Dodge) and still doesn't run smoothly on just about anything (GTX980Ti + 1 Year old Computer of pretty high quality = Still gets 40FPS that drops to 20FPS in some areas and moments)

    It's really frustrating
    If they want to Pay Streamers to show the game off they need to Fix allot of the issues plaguing it first
    Glitches/Performance/CONTENT

    If they could do one thing to revitalize content in the games current state I'd suggest making hero mode raids guarantee a Bracelet box Increase the difficulty of them a bit and allow 8 man raids with no Companions
    Prototypemind
  • noctrednoctred
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    Twln wrote: »
    Thats the double-edge sword of Vindictus game design. It appeals to only a select few gamers who like to dungeon crawl all day . What happens when players get bored of dungeons (in the case of this streamer, it happened instantly)? they quit. There's no in-between content like open world to shake things up.

    So the implication is this streamer quit instantly because they got bored of Vindi's content? One of the problems with Vindictus today is that its [relevant] content is entirely backloaded - how do you get bored of something you haven't experienced?

    What's actually happening is these people experience a glorified tutorial for the entirety of their trial and have no drive or reason to do any research beyond that boundary - and the game itself does nothing to dispel this illusion until you cross an invisible line and suddenly find yourself amidst a fairly unreasonable difficulty spike (one hour wonder streamers don't make it there). Consequently, these people get bored of things which have no relevance to what the game is actually about. Hopefully you can see the difference.

    The biggest reason why Vindictus has diminished over the years has everything to do with Nexon's shitty management and overly lax approach to addressing technical issues, and very little to do with the game's narrow content focus.
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    Sir_Render wrote: »
    Also this game is riddled with pretty important bugs that have never been fixed(Like Vella's Face Tank Crosscut or Dellia's Magnetic Dodge) and still doesn't run smoothly on just about anything (GTX980Ti + 1 Year old Computer of pretty high quality = Still gets 40FPS that drops to 20FPS in some areas and moments

    Off topic, but what's a 1 year old pc of "pretty high quality," mean in this case? What's the processor & is it a laptop or desktop?
  • TariroTariro
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    I think offering a Twitch bounty for an mmo is the dumbest thing Nexon can do. 90% of all mmos require a grind period before actually witnessing any real content. Also the bounty rewards were too high for any real person to look at anything past the money.

    This was pokelawlz's bounty board. $2.6k for an hour of streaming vindi. Granted he needed 3k concurrent viewers, but of course he'd just do it for the cash grab and gtfo without doing any meaningful research.

    unknown.png
    PrototypemindSir_Render
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    While that may technically not be a bad $/viewer payout, it's insane that they'd throw that kind of cash at streamers while doing nothing to vet them at all and doing nothing to control what level of content is showcased. Nexon still somehow surprises me with its stupidity every day, which probably just makes me fool for thinking they can't get any dumber with their business practices.
  • SuhpremeSuhpreme
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    vindictus sucks
  • KursKurs
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    welp at least you can't say they didn't try. If you people think you can do better then I challenge you to propose detailed ideas that aren't the usual vague ideas that people usually give in their criticisms, but actual well thought out processes that you'd propose to your boss.
  • TariroTariro
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    edited December 20, 2018
    Idk, a very simple solution to make that whole bounty thing actually worthwhile was to provide premade accounts for the streamers. It's kinda like how reviewers get a free copy of things. Better than 5 bounty streams of lvl 1-10.
  • GruntyGrunty
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    I feel like a ridiculous hipster but this game doesn't need more people to play it. All the first looks I see are "lol this game is faceroll easy zzz" and besides the dedicated Vindi streamers who have like 20 people, anyone trying this game on twitch is gonna just talk **** because they'd rather make money playing fortnite and are just doing the bounty to get it over with.

    It doesn't matter how awesome the combat is when you don't fight anything hard until level 90. No first look youtuber or streamer is gonna grind to 90 for first look. I remember back when I died on Revenge back several years ago because the game was hard as ****. First looks were accurate at gauging difficulty back then.

    I get bored leveling because the game is so faceroll. I want to go back to when level cap was like 35 or whatever and bosses were super hard the whole way. Every MMO has such a stupidly huge level cap now that all the content leading upto it is faceroll. I hate this.

    /life
  • KursKurs
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    Tariro wrote: »
    Idk, a very simple solution to make that whole bounty thing actually worthwhile was to provide premade accounts for the streamers. It's kinda like how reviewers get a free copy of things. Better than 5 bounty streams of lvl 1-10.

    so I could be wrong about the difficulty behind this solution because I don't know how the bounty program works but these are the type of vague ideas that I question because they don't seem to take into account what I assume are the complexities that would go into the ideas. My assumption is that the bounty program is run by twitch, and that it's automated where anyone can join but get paid depending on certain criteria such as total views. So because the nature is that anyone can join at any time and this program is run by twitch and not Nexon, my question is how do you expect Nexon to coordinate with these streamers in a manner that's worth their time and that's actually possible given that Nexon employees are human and have other jobs as well. To me this seems like it would be very difficult to accomplish. And people would still complain "these streamers don't know what they are doing". Do you expect Nexon employees to monitor every single one of the streamers to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to? And how much work would the coordination between twitch take to do all this? Do you expect Nexon to teach each one of these streamers prior to them streaming? And how much coordination would this take and would the streamers really want to make the extra effort? These are the types of questions I'm thinking when I hear all these vague solutions and well I definitely have my doubts.
  • EmerthystEmerthyst
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    Like i said in my first comment(last comment on page probably got overlooked), The 3 people the op posted did give the game an honest shot I felt none of the animosity towards instances, non-open world, etc like i did watching byte and lazypeon. The thing they all said was that beginner areas are way too easy. Kidritch even looked at some high level gameplay after a comment told him to (neamhain and s3 elchy) and he was really impressed how much more difficult it gets and what high level gameplay looks like compared to what he was doing at perilous ruins.
    2edgy4u
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    Kurs wrote: »
    welp at least you can't say they didn't try. If you people think you can do better then I challenge you to propose detailed ideas that aren't the usual vague ideas that people usually give in their criticisms, but actual well thought out processes that you'd propose to your boss.

    I did that as have others here and plenty of times in the past. Vet the players to make sure they'll take it seriously, and make sure they actually play parts of the game that showcase what Vindi is about. This doesn't need some 50 page business plan to make sense. I see lots of other titles pay streamers/content makers to feature them and they have better results because the teams involved actually take the time to pick people who will take it seriously and who have a history of presenting an accurate picture of the games they play.

    You want a detailed plan? From now on don't be lazy by just posting up Twitch bounties that anyone who meets the requirements can take. Put in some effort like you care about your ROI and pick out people who will showcase your product in a way that you wouldn't be embarrassed about if you had to explain yourself the the board. If what these guys did was an undergrad final presentation for a marketing or business capstone they'd have failed to come anywhere close to a reasonable goal. It was just sad.
  • KursKurs
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    edited December 21, 2018
    @Prototypemind

    The thing is I'm guessing that it's more difficult to manage all these solutions than you think it is. The point of me rather having a detailed plan is because most of the solutions I see don't take into account a lot of the complexities and problems that probably will need to be addressed to actually put the plan in place. It's kind of like most people think that Nexon can magically do this or just throw more people at it, or that they're all robots. Like I'm guessing that making Nexon a special case to let them vet the players will be a lot more work for twitch, with privacy issues coming up since I'm guessing that the Twitch bounty is run through Twitch rather than Nexon.

    Simply put, that saying about best laid plans... the one that pretty much says they usually look great on paper but they might not work as well as you think they would since there's a lot more things you haven't thought about.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    Other companies manage it. If Nexon can't then I guess they'll just have to deal with being behind the times. I've seen a number of mobile gaming companies that are new to the west over the last year pick intelligent choices for content creators to carry their games on their Twitch channels. Sad is only the start of it if a corporation the size of Nexon can't hire people to figure out the logistics of that. DE has a freaking army of affiliated partners to who stream Warframe regularly, even handing off from their regular Community Streams to a different partner each time they have them. Bottom line is you feeling like forum goers need to spell out for Nexon how to manage their own social media influencing probably says a lot about how behind the times they are.
  • KursKurs
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    edited December 21, 2018
    well if you say so but are you sure that those are paid sponsored streams through the bounty board? Because Nexon had already tried paid sponsored streams and lent the streamers leveled up accounts. Since they're still not doing it then that may mean that it had questionable results, I know that there was one of the popular streamers that played Vindi on his own as his guilty pleasure. And Vindi to me as it's played now doesn't seem like the type of game that's entertaining to stream when compared to other types of games such as Warframe. So you get streamers who can attract others and make it entertaining? Well, do you know anyone in the Vindi community who can do that? Okay so train streamers who are popular already how to play Vindi? Well, that's probably a lot of trouble for both parties involved, and who wants to be trained to play a game? And what do you train them to do and would it really change anything? I don't know about you but I think streams are entertaining because a combination of the streamers personalities and what happens in it. Games like Warframe have a competitive nature to them don't they? I haven't played Warframe so I don't know but that's what it looks like to me. So in games like that, random new things can always happen. However, the combination of Vindi's gameplay nature and its community don't seem like the streaming type to me. What games besides Warframe are you talking about? Do you mean league of legends? Dota? Is there a game like Vindi that has popular streams? These are things that make me still think it's not as simple as you all seem to think it is, but hey if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but I'm not quite convinced personally and I'm not sure streaming solutions are meant for Vindi, at least not a long lasting solution, at best it may be good for the first few tries with popular streamers with other entertaining streamers, but even then I have some doubts.
  • ErinieIErinieI
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    Don't think anyone consistently streams Vindictus anyway, since streaming it solely relies on your own entertainment value
    also
    NA only LUL