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New Raid/Level 100 and more.

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  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
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    edited August 4, 2018
    ikevi wrote: »
    Maybe I'm just a skeptic, but to me this new enhance system feels like a gold and ap sink. They take away the ability to enhance restored items (something that was available prior to Rise) and now have it require AP, Materials, and Runes. They took something that was practically free and now are charging for the service. Ok then. Way to milk the playerbase. Why am I not surprised? It is Nexon.

    True, but after having double boomed over 45 lv 90 weapons for my first +15... I like this new way of guaranteeing a +15 eventually. I just don't like that it is going to cost so many mats/runes to get there. (I can live with the AP costs since the last thing you want is to give everyone instant +15s.)

    That said I still would have rather them nerf AD back to what it was before so they don't have to build bosses assuming you have ~4k AD. Now all the bosses likely will be all built with that in mind.

    Lol and with the newer bosses now you have "Counterforce" stat to deal with if you even want to output ANY decent amount of damage. My only concern with the fact that the enhancement needs AP for accessories (with NA server at least) is you guys still have an AP cap. That should have been removed over a year ago lol.

    As to give you all an idea on the huge impact the new stat will have here's a highlight of me dealing damage to macha having only 10 Counterforce. Keep in mind this raid officially recommends you have 100 of this stat to deal 60% of your damage output.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/293158812
  • QueenOfManaQueenOfMana
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    How much do you need to be dealing 100% damage output?
  • ProR2D2ProR2D2
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    edited August 5, 2018
    Is it true you can only enhance lvl 90 rings? They are 60m on NA. Snail being generous my ass +mad. Restrict content to players unless they pay 120m + enhance costs per character just for entry. Sure, why not.
    Also lvl 100 weapons being 4000 dmg stronger than dullahan and Macha having 36k ATT cap sounds like they want to make lvl 90 useless too.

    Seems to me Devcat continue to **** on the little guy. But you guys keep praising whale-focused content like you did with RISE. I guess you find it fun to play an MMO with 5 people on the server.
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
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    How much do you need to be dealing 100% damage output?

    If you want to do 100% damage output to macha then you want at least 120 Counterforce.
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
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    edited August 6, 2018
    ProR2D2 wrote: »
    Is it true you can only enhance lvl 90 rings? They are 60m on NA. Snail being generous my ass +mad. Restrict content to players unless they pay 120m + enhance costs per character just for entry. Sure, why not.
    Also lvl 100 weapons being 4000 dmg stronger than dullahan and Macha having 36k ATT cap sounds like they want to make lvl 90 useless too.

    Seems to me Devcat continue to **** on the little guy. But you guys keep praising whale-focused content like you did with RISE. I guess you find it fun to play an MMO with 5 people on the server.

    Level 85 or higher accessories can be enhanced. However a major thing to note is at +20 the lower level the accessory the less Counterforce stat you get out of it. Level 100 accessories give 50 Counterforce at +20 which is most of what you need for the minimum for Claire. Level 85 gives you 30 Counterforce at +20.

    One thing I want to make clear is most of the players on KR are geared for the content. DevCAT develops the game with Korea playerbase in mind since they only manage the Korea playerbase. Anything outside of Korea is left to the publishers.
  • ikeviikevi
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    edited August 6, 2018
    ProR2D2 wrote: »
    Is it true you can only enhance lvl 90 rings? They are 60m on NA. Snail being generous my ass +mad. Restrict content to players unless they pay 120m + enhance costs per character just for entry. Sure, why not.
    Also lvl 100 weapons being 4000 dmg stronger than dullahan and Macha having 36k ATT cap sounds like they want to make lvl 90 useless too.

    Seems to me Devcat continue to **** on the little guy. But you guys keep praising whale-focused content like you did with RISE. I guess you find it fun to play an MMO with 5 people on the server.

    Level 85 or higher accessories can be enhanced. However a major thing to note is at +20 the lower level the accessory the less Counterforce stat you get out of it. Level 100 accessories give 50 Counterforce at +20 which is most of what you need for the minimum for Claire. Level 85 gives you 30 Counterforce at +20.

    One thing I want to make clear is most of the players on KR are geared for the content. DevCAT develops the game with Korea playerbase in mind since they only manage the Korea playerbase. Anything outside of Korea is left to the publishers.

    Honestly I don't see this new stat as being "whale-focused" content. Yes it is their way of trying to get folks to upgrade, but remember there is no need to have to have everything capped the instant the new content is released. (And I like this better than them increasing the bosses crit res again by another ~20...)

    And at least this is the first stat that isn't complete bs. (You can get your accessories to +20 without much of an issue... just get those mats early instead of after the new content is released.)

    Oh and remember that for folks that do 50 x neam and 100 balor alread have 2k extra att. I think with these new +20 options I "could" make my lv 90 +15 gear hit >36k without even using att focused scrolls...

    I doubt I will bother upgrading lower lvl weapons/armor, but with the new +15 possible system it looks like making all +15 lv 90 gear won't cost as much as even making +12 lv 100 gear. Which is actually great for the folks that have already just made +13 lv 90 weapons and are content there.

    This new content is actually going to make it so I upgrade my lv 95 armor slower than anything else. I assume folks with gold + good gear already will be attempting to +15 lv 100 weapon, then new earrings/belt. Then start to work on armor.

    I see this new content as being really good for the folks that play a lot, but haven't managed really good gear. I don't think it will be that good for those that just play a bit and are happy with keeping minimum gear. But maybe that is a good thing, since it will focus on trying to keep people playing longer. (IE having a known path to +15 is much better than the rng bs we have now.) That said I see this content being really bad for my alts... I already only really play 2 characters now, and I don't see myself bothering to upgrade their stuff at all at this rate. (And sadly the system is designed to make it so you can't do hand me downs of much gear anymore.)
  • ArgazielArgaziel
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    Can you use unstable enhacement rune for restore a ítem?
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
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    ikevi wrote: »
    ProR2D2 wrote: »
    Is it true you can only enhance lvl 90 rings? They are 60m on NA. Snail being generous my ass +mad. Restrict content to players unless they pay 120m + enhance costs per character just for entry. Sure, why not.
    Also lvl 100 weapons being 4000 dmg stronger than dullahan and Macha having 36k ATT cap sounds like they want to make lvl 90 useless too.

    Seems to me Devcat continue to **** on the little guy. But you guys keep praising whale-focused content like you did with RISE. I guess you find it fun to play an MMO with 5 people on the server.

    Level 85 or higher accessories can be enhanced. However a major thing to note is at +20 the lower level the accessory the less Counterforce stat you get out of it. Level 100 accessories give 50 Counterforce at +20 which is most of what you need for the minimum for Claire. Level 85 gives you 30 Counterforce at +20.

    One thing I want to make clear is most of the players on KR are geared for the content. DevCAT develops the game with Korea playerbase in mind since they only manage the Korea playerbase. Anything outside of Korea is left to the publishers.

    Honestly I don't see this new stat as being "whale-focused" content. Yes it is their way of trying to get folks to upgrade, but remember there is no need to have to have everything capped the instant the new content is released. (And I like this better than them increasing the bosses crit res again by another ~20...)

    And at least this is the first stat that isn't complete bs. (You can get your accessories to +20 without much of an issue... just get those mats early instead of after the new content is released.)

    Oh and remember that for folks that do 50 x neam and 100 balor alread have 2k extra att. I think with these new +20 options I "could" make my lv 90 +15 gear hit >36k without even using att focused scrolls...

    I doubt I will bother upgrading lower lvl weapons/armor, but with the new +15 possible system it looks like making all +15 lv 90 gear won't cost as much as even making +12 lv 100 gear. Which is actually great for the folks that have already just made +13 lv 90 weapons and are content there.

    This new content is actually going to make it so I upgrade my lv 95 armor slower than anything else. I assume folks with gold + good gear already will be attempting to +15 lv 100 weapon, then new earrings/belt. Then start to work on armor.

    I see this new content as being really good for the folks that play a lot, but haven't managed really good gear. I don't think it will be that good for those that just play a bit and are happy with keeping minimum gear. But maybe that is a good thing, since it will focus on trying to keep people playing longer. (IE having a known path to +15 is much better than the rng bs we have now.) That said I see this content being really bad for my alts... I already only really play 2 characters now, and I don't see myself bothering to upgrade their stuff at all at this rate. (And sadly the system is designed to make it so you can't do hand me downs of much gear anymore.)

    That's how I see this update as well. Except minus be being rich lol. I gotta farm for gold since the stat has drained all of my gold jsut to get 50 of that stat since my RNG with Enhancing was painful this time around.
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
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    Argaziel wrote: »
    Can you use unstable enhacement rune for restore a ítem?

    I would need to test that to see if that still applies for live server. It did on test server but I didn't see anything on the live server patch notes stating any changes to that specifically.
  • ProR2D2ProR2D2
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    edited August 6, 2018
    ikevi wrote: »
    ProR2D2 wrote: »
    Is it true you can only enhance lvl 90 rings? They are 60m on NA. Snail being generous my ass +mad. Restrict content to players unless they pay 120m + enhance costs per character just for entry. Sure, why not.
    Also lvl 100 weapons being 4000 dmg stronger than dullahan and Macha having 36k ATT cap sounds like they want to make lvl 90 useless too.

    Seems to me Devcat continue to **** on the little guy. But you guys keep praising whale-focused content like you did with RISE. I guess you find it fun to play an MMO with 5 people on the server.

    Level 85 or higher accessories can be enhanced. However a major thing to note is at +20 the lower level the accessory the less Counterforce stat you get out of it. Level 100 accessories give 50 Counterforce at +20 which is most of what you need for the minimum for Claire. Level 85 gives you 30 Counterforce at +20.

    One thing I want to make clear is most of the players on KR are geared for the content. DevCAT develops the game with Korea playerbase in mind since they only manage the Korea playerbase. Anything outside of Korea is left to the publishers.

    Honestly I don't see this new stat as being "whale-focused" content. Yes it is their way of trying to get folks to upgrade, but remember there is no need to have to have everything capped the instant the new content is released. (And I like this better than them increasing the bosses crit res again by another ~20...)

    And at least this is the first stat that isn't complete bs. (You can get your accessories to +20 without much of an issue... just get those mats early instead of after the new content is released.)

    Oh and remember that for folks that do 50 x neam and 100 balor alread have 2k extra att. I think with these new +20 options I "could" make my lv 90 +15 gear hit >36k without even using att focused scrolls...

    I doubt I will bother upgrading lower lvl weapons/armor, but with the new +15 possible system it looks like making all +15 lv 90 gear won't cost as much as even making +12 lv 100 gear. Which is actually great for the folks that have already just made +13 lv 90 weapons and are content there.

    I don't think anyone has the time to upgrade or get the redeemers buff in multiple characters (like 7 chars) without being a whale. It's good that they give some things for free but a lot of them are meant to be replaced anyways, so they are not really that usefull.

    It's like what they did with lvl 80 and below. If they didn't destroyed lvl 80s on RISE people wouldn't need to change gear so often, which is frustating if you are using fused gear like me. A +20 lvl 70-80 would be a cool journey without having to refuse your whole gear, but instead they decided to competely trash and remove that, and force people to re-gear, rather than simply upgrade. They seem to want to do the same to lvl 90s.

    That sounds like greed to me. Games like this already earn a lot from cosmetics, and I know cuz I spend on them. To say they need more is Greed.
  • Order5Order5
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    Any expertise news? Is Tailoring still beneath us?
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    It is strange that they're so old school with their approach. Games like CS:GO, BDO, Overwatch, Warframe, and plenty of others show the insane amounts of money people will spend on cosmetics on multiple characters; much more than an entire population will on just power creep and staying relevant in a punitive system that hurts you for falling a little behind. Honestly if it weren't throwing away all the time spent already and for some foolishness over on their servers, I would have transferred completely to one of the private servers.

    One day Korean companies will get that players will spend a whooooooole lot more customizing lots of different characters that they can actually enjoy playing than they will on just one. Most of the whales pump and dump, leaving the game for long periods because they get bored having so much power on one character but don't want to invest the time, energy, and money into gearing more. I get this new system being more progression, but with how much RNG is already involved in getting anywhere in Vindi it's going to hurt and already stretched population outside of Asia. +20, attack limit release after tediously maxing shards, and now another system to become a massive time/resource sink that means we won't be able to take a full set of characters through the story and into the highest content.

    Finishing the most difficult raids in other games is walled by predictable progression that then gives way to skill checks more than gear checks; in Vindi, whaling and throwing yourself at RNG can make all the difference. The systems in Vindi have always been penalizing, but the Rise changes creating such huge gaps in ability to clear based on Add Damage, lowering enhance success above +12, and now what's to come is going to leave a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths.

    Keep in mind as well that a poor population on NA means higher prices for everything, making it even more difficult to progress simply by playing regularly. I don't think it's going to turn out well as a whole in the end. Glad for the Damascus system that's coming, but Counterforce is like Agony Resistance in GW2, only without a level playing field for anyone who wants to earn it.
  • HookedOnRiceHookedOnRice
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    I have a few questions:

    I've heard some rumors about the +13 runes for lvl 90 gear in the Bravery Shop being removed. Can you confirm this? I wanted to know if I should get +13 90's on all of my alts before the update hits since getting 95/100 gear will most likely be a huge grind that I can't do for all my characters.

    Also, are there stat sheets for the level 100 gear? How do +10 100's compare to +10/+11 95's and +13 90's?

    Will +13 90's be good enough for the content, assuming you have reached 100 Counterforce to contribute to raids?

    Will we be given "welfare sets" like the pre-enchanted +10 90 armors we have been receiving in the past?

    Thanks for all this, you're definitely helping out a ton of us prepare for the next 6 months!
  • ikeviikevi
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    Preface: Post rise I have consistently been responding to the Nexon feedback with a rating of 0 stating roll back AD, get rid of +20 myth, give me 8 man raids again, etc. I am not a fan of a lot of what Nexon has been doing.

    That said this content is still a huge win... Making it so you can get to +15 should at least make balancing of bosses more fair.

    +20 accessories -> Yes the new stat is a dumb way to force folks that only have old infused lv 80 accessories to upgrade, IE all my alts. But this actually really helps.

    Remember failing on them doesn't = reset. Right now the big cost will just be the gold per enhance. Later I assume the botted leather/cloths will become more expensive. Come the new 100 gear, buy cheap scrolled/infused lv 85 earrings + belts since lv 100's will be causing many folks to try to get rid of their old ones. -> 220 att + 60 of the new stat.

    Then the issue is lv 95 ring? Well at least smooth chunks are going to drop in price even more come lv 100 gear. I doubt the ess will drop that much though. So assume ~30m for new rings? Just trying to farm them yourself on 1 character by running S3 raid content for 1 month. That should result in you earning way more than that. (And who knows maybe you will get an ess yourself.) Course you can earn that $$ faster by just burning through S2 old raids quickly for scrolls ;-)

    Anyways once you get 2 rings you can get 40 of the new stat quickly. (You don't need to get them to +20).

    All in all I see this new enhancing as an easy ~500 att increase. Sure it isn't the jump in att lv 100 weapons give, but with these new bosses att cap will be 34-36k. They really have given us a lot of ways to get our att up. -> kitty potions (i know I am sitting on ~500 per alt...) + soap + Cheap bracelets + att from accessories. All these things really add up in Att. And if you do use Immoral +Judgement on a lv 80 weapon you should be able to get really close or over this with +15s.

    It is really crit that the have decided to use to nerf lv 90 folks, but honestly this stuff is nothing compared to what AD did to lv 80 and lower weapons/armor.

    And remember Nexon has always focused on forcing people to replace gear... Why do you think we have so many different characters instead of being able to use more weapon types on one character? Let alone the push they did to try to make <lv 90 gear useless..
  • ikeviikevi
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    I have a few questions:

    I've heard some rumors about the +13 runes for lvl 90 gear in the Bravery Shop being removed. Can you confirm this? I wanted to know if I should get +13 90's on all of my alts before the update hits since getting 95/100 gear will most likely be a huge grind that I can't do for all my characters.

    Also, are there stat sheets for the level 100 gear? How do +10 100's compare to +10/+11 95's and +13 90's?

    Will +13 90's be good enough for the content, assuming you have reached 100 Counterforce to contribute to raids?

    Will we be given "welfare sets" like the pre-enchanted +10 90 armors we have been receiving in the past?

    Thanks for all this, you're definitely helping out a ton of us prepare for the next 6 months!

    Stats were already posted, but best place to see info is here: http://vindmanual.forumotion.com/t201-season-3-chapter-3-episode-2-and-level-100#457
    HookedOnRice
  • 탱크블레이드탱크블레이드
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    ikevi wrote: »
    Preface: Post rise I have consistently been responding to the Nexon feedback with a rating of 0 stating roll back AD, get rid of +20 myth, give me 8 man raids again, etc. I am not a fan of a lot of what Nexon has been doing.

    That said this content is still a huge win... Making it so you can get to +15 should at least make balancing of bosses more fair.

    +20 accessories -> Yes the new stat is a dumb way to force folks that only have old infused lv 80 accessories to upgrade, IE all my alts. But this actually really helps.

    Remember failing on them doesn't = reset. Right now the big cost will just be the gold per enhance. Later I assume the botted leather/cloths will become more expensive. Come the new 100 gear, buy cheap scrolled/infused lv 85 earrings + belts since lv 100's will be causing many folks to try to get rid of their old ones. -> 220 att + 60 of the new stat.

    Then the issue is lv 95 ring? Well at least smooth chunks are going to drop in price even more come lv 100 gear. I doubt the ess will drop that much though. So assume ~30m for new rings? Just trying to farm them yourself on 1 character by running S3 raid content for 1 month. That should result in you earning way more than that. (And who knows maybe you will get an ess yourself.) Course you can earn that $$ faster by just burning through S2 old raids quickly for scrolls ;-)

    Anyways once you get 2 rings you can get 40 of the new stat quickly. (You don't need to get them to +20).

    All in all I see this new enhancing as an easy ~500 att increase. Sure it isn't the jump in att lv 100 weapons give, but with these new bosses att cap will be 34-36k. They really have given us a lot of ways to get our att up. -> kitty potions (i know I am sitting on ~500 per alt...) + soap + Cheap bracelets + att from accessories. All these things really add up in Att. And if you do use Immoral +Judgement on a lv 80 weapon you should be able to get really close or over this with +15s.

    It is really crit that the have decided to use to nerf lv 90 folks, but honestly this stuff is nothing compared to what AD did to lv 80 and lower weapons/armor.

    And remember Nexon has always focused on forcing people to replace gear... Why do you think we have so many different characters instead of being able to use more weapon types on one character? Let alone the push they did to try to make <lv 90 gear useless..

    Depends on how you look at it. DevCAT at least gave an explanation as to why this stat exists game lore wise in the patch notes. It all has to do with Eweca (The Red Moon). This is making the player of destiny weaker thus requiring a new stat to counter said things. As far as gear upgrade concerns on NA I don't really have an opinion on that. That would be 2 entirely different economy that I would be comparing and since i don't play on NA I have zero rights to compare such things xD If cost is an issue over there then well....idk what to tell ya lol. That's not really something Nexon KR/DevCAT has control over. Lemme know if Im missing your point cause I feel like I'm just rambling on.
  • BOK_CHOIBOK_CHOI
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    I think it should be pointed out that a couple days ago in KR server the damascus steel requirements for item restoration was changed.
    They significantly increased the requirements for the lvl 95 gear while decreasing the requirements for the lvl 100 gear.

    For details, go to the link below and scroll down a bit, and you should see a set of charts.
    The charts compare the steel requirements for before this patch vs. now.
    The order of the charts: lvl 90 weapon, lvl 90 armor, lvl 95 weapon, lvl 95 armor, lvl 100 weapon, lvl 100 armor.

    http://www.inven.co.kr/board/heroes/2471/41216

    I apologize that I do not have the time (at least at this moment) to translate all that information to English for better readability, but basically, before the patch the lvl 95 gear took just 1/3 of the damascus steel requirement of lvl 100 gear, whereas now, they take 2/3.

    There's been a huge backlash since this patch because a lot of people had been working on +15 lvl 95 weapons as a much more economical alternative to switching over to lvl 100, but then this change was suddenly implemented overnight with no warning whatsoever, making both routes really expensive and tedious.
  • ProR2D2ProR2D2
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    edited August 17, 2018
    It seems they don't want you to play with more than 1 character. Looks greedy to me.

    Also what happen to the Green enhance rune? did it become useless? I don't think anyone wants to risk losing a level over losing the item and reviving it.
  • BOK_CHOIBOK_CHOI
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    ProR2D2 wrote: »
    It seems they don't want you to play with more than 1 character. Looks greedy to me.

    Also what happen to the Green enhance rune? did it become useless? I don't think anyone wants to risk losing a level over losing the item and reviving it.

    They've become discontinued in KR server (probably for that exact reason you've mentioned), along with the seal shop stones & rune for making +13 lvl 90 weapons.
    On the other hand though they've upgraded the free lvl 90 gear to fully orange, enchanted, +12 that are enhance-able (I'm assuming this'll come to NA server as well, upon the lvl 100 update).
  • ProR2D2ProR2D2
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    edited August 17, 2018
    BOK_CHOI wrote: »
    ProR2D2 wrote: »
    It seems they don't want you to play with more than 1 character. Looks greedy to me.

    Also what happen to the Green enhance rune? did it become useless? I don't think anyone wants to risk losing a level over losing the item and reviving it.

    They've become discontinued in KR server (probably for that exact reason you've mentioned), along with the seal shop stones & rune for making +13 lvl 90 weapons.
    On the other hand though they've upgraded the free lvl 90 gear to fully orange, enchanted, +12 that are enhance-able (I'm assuming this'll come to NA server as well, upon the lvl 100 update).

    Can you please show seal & exchange shop updates? No more Green runes means monthly tickets could be useless too.
    Also do you know if we getting the orange gear if we are already lvl 95?