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Trying to understand guild fires

ikeviikevi
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edited February 16, 2018 in General Discussion
Ok 65k... Sure it isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. No biggy when you are spending 250k+ each repair... Or is it.

I mean just think on this.

Why are folks willing to spend that money for 1 extra drop, but not put in a free luck stone you get via AP?

Why will people spend an extra 65k on each regina/lord glas/braha/Lugh/Eoch/abom but not buy a 3-4 m 30 day cadet badge. (Just running those 6 battles each day = ~11 m in fire fees a month.)

And who thinks that 100 extra att/add damage = a great buff... if they have 4k+ ad already. We are talking about a 0.5% dps increase if you are lucky, which just makes a 3-5 min run a 5 or so seconds shorter...

Oh and those ~250k repair jobs are only ~10k per raid... so we are talking about close to a 650% increase in costs per run.

So can folks tell me why I get angst if I ask why people are using them? (I will politely dance while they get their buffs, assuming they weren't slow in starting to make their fires.)

Am I just missing something? (It isn't even like the person making the fire buff is being nice since everyone has to pay their own gold to get the buffs...)


Note I can at least condone fires in Aes or Dul. (Heck I will be the one making the fire). But oddly I have never seen someone use it in a Donegal daily, and those chunks sell for more than the average essence you get in dul, with 2 chances of getting orange chunks... How did Nexon brainwash us all so easily to burn our gold?

Comments

  • MisterWhiskersMisterWhiskers
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    edited February 16, 2018
    does someone hold a knife at your throat until you use the campfire? No.

    At the end of the day,this is just another money sink that ppl can use if they WISH
    cyborax
  • ikeviikevi
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    edited February 16, 2018
    does someone hold a knife at your throat until you use the campfire?

    No.So there's no problem they added a costly buff that some ppl like using

    And yet another good example of the angst. All I ask is why. And you attempt to rip into me ;-) (And again I will wait for folks to get there buff, assuming they didn't wait like 30+ seconds to make a fire. It is there gold. I just have yet to hear any argument besides comments like this, or worse insults...)
  • Sir_RenderSir_Render
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    does someone hold a knife at your throat until you use the campfire? No.

    But they will hold a Box up to your face and do a dance occasionally
  • MisterWhiskersMisterWhiskers
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    ikevi wrote: »
    does someone hold a knife at your throat until you use the campfire?

    No.So there's no problem they added a costly buff that some ppl like using

    And yet another good example of the angst. All I ask is why. And you attempt to rip into me ;-) (And again I will wait for folks to get there buff, assuming they didn't wait like 30+ seconds to make a fire. It is there gold. I just have yet to hear any argument besides comments like this, or worse insults...)

    here's the argument

    don't like to pay for extra buffs and loot= don't do it

    do you like to pay for extra buffs and loot = do it

    Each person decides for himself whether they're worth it or not for the raid they're doing.I personally don't bother with it in raider lower than dullahan
  • StormCrusherStormCrusher
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    Well using it on any battle other than donegal farm/dulla/aes is useless af i agree, if some1 use it in other battle i don't buy anything.

    The reason i buy the 65k version is it includes extra core and 5 luck.

    The reason i don't buy cadets budge is i need these bufs only for certain battles.

    And yeah i guess it is another 'money sink' to keep economy balanced, same as mp taxes for example.

    For the repair costs you can always use pots, thats what i do when i do bosses for more than 30min :)
  • MadcobraMadcobra
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    Because ppl believe in extra luck and its just another trick to pull out some gold from players . I have the same luck with or withouth camp
  • PuppymanPuppyman
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    Mang, I must need to update my gear cause I can camp during raids and still make a profit after repairs from gold acquired alone.
  • NokaubureNokaubure
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    edited February 16, 2018
    You can't compare campfire buff with cadet badge. As long as you have > 100 luk, you always get +1 core, people should have infinite luk blessings considering a bunch of events in the past gave enough to have 999 and they cost AP too. A luk blessing gives +7 luk which translates to +10.5% chance to get a white core for each black core the boss drops. If you use a cadet badge, it adds +15% to that chance, additive. Campfire buff gives a guaranted +1 core which stacks with the > 100 luk formula, plus +7.5% of white core.

    In short, campfire is useful because of the +1 core , the other buffs are secondary improvements.
    BabyDani
  • ikeviikevi
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    edited February 16, 2018
    Nokaubure wrote: »
    You can't compare campfire buff with cadet badge. As long as you have > 100 luk, you always get +1 core, people should have infinite luk blessings considering a bunch of events in the past gave enough to have 999 and they cost AP too. A luk blessing gives +7 luk which translates to +10.5% chance to get a white core for each black core the boss drops. If you use a cadet badge, it adds +15% to that chance, additive. Campfire buff gives a guaranted +1 core which stacks with the > 100 luk formula, plus +7.5% of white core.

    In short, campfire is useful because of the +1 core , the other buffs are secondary improvements.

    Cool a response that has some argument.

    So I think you get me a bit wrong on what I am saying about the luck.

    What I often see are folks with 100 luck not using blessing, and not using a badge still spending 65k per run for that extra core. You basically just agreed for me that again doing those 2 things are much more cost effective than buying the fire buff.


    Yep. Luck > 100 = auto 1 extra core + [1.5*(luck-100)*(core count -1)]extra core. So cadet badge on a regular 4 core raid= on average 1.45 extra cores (whatever that means ;-). If you are just running the 6 raids each day for 30 days that means you are paying ~20 k per run. Course most folks do other runs, so the cadet badge is much much better bang for your buck.

    The luck blessing again is just free. Either you spend ap for them on the key maps (most folks are flush with ap now that we can't double boom) or as you said old events have given us a ton of blessings.

    Or are you trying to say that 117 luck for at most 20k a raid (if you only run 6 raids a day all of them the meh drop S3s now...) is somehow worse than a guaranteed +1 core? (Because 117 luck should give you on average~1.8 extra cores in a 4 core raid. Course RNG is rng so results will vary ;-)
  • ISnatchMoneyISnatchMoney
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    I use superior guild campfires for donegal daily, S3-raids, only for Abomination, Dullahan, Aes_Sidhe, and Specials. Other than those raids, it's really not worth it tbh.. I know that this campfire is considered as a 'gold-sink', not sure how many caught on, but if you also use durability protections-repair fees can be minimal.

    I just don't see it worth using on any other raids listed above, let alone hero s2, or s1 at all.. especially since there is close-to-no gold from battle rewards in s2 now...
  • CashewsCashews
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    edited February 16, 2018
    People don't use Luck blessings in your runs? I'm drowning in divine and luck blessings because every time I join a boat there's already one up and I can't use mine. I usually buy the campfire buffs because you get like 90k as a completion reward for the quest anyway. And like was mentioned it's a guaranteed +1, so why not. Not gonna waste the money on anything pre-S3 though.

    Probably confirmation bias here but I feel like I've gotten/seen a lot more rares since they added the Superior camps compared to before.
  • ElleaseEllease
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    I run Cadet Badge, and bless every battle that has a >300k drop. I use guild campfire on all S3 raids, shard maps (that aren't quest maps since they drop less cores and only have one boss), chunk maps, and S2 raids. Campfire core and the extra luck cores pay out way more than their cost, and one rare drop can easily pay for 300+ campfires
  • VladinoVladino
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    Let's say you get 1 rare out of 25 battles (4 cores per battle - no vip, luck or guildfire). So guildfire gives you stable +2 cores so let's assume in 50 battles you will get 1 rare because of the guildfire buff. 50*65k = 3.25kk is what you pay for that one rare. Idk about NA average rare price but in EU it took me more than month of constant raiding to get anything worth more than 10kk and usual drops are scrolls and oranges worth less than 2-3kk (usually 1kk - scrolls like chaotic, spirited, expeditionary - and I'm happy when they sell) so for EU it's not worth to use that guildfire...
  • ikeviikevi
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    Ellease wrote: »
    I run Cadet Badge, and bless every battle that has a >300k drop. I use guild campfire on all S3 raids, shard maps (that aren't quest maps since they drop less cores and only have one boss), chunk maps, and S2 raids. Campfire core and the extra luck cores pay out way more than their cost, and one rare drop can easily pay for 300+ campfires

    Yep, I never said that 1 core can't pay for lots of fires. Though I can only think of a small handful of rare drops now that are at your 300 campfire level (IE >19.5m). And seeing as I am focusing on the 6 non-dul/aes raids that handful gets much much smaller. (I can think of maybe 3 scrolls that regularly stay above that price threshold?)

    But you are being smart and using all the possible buffs, so I can at least understand why you went with fires.

    As for S2 +wow. How do you factor that spending 65k is worth it? I agree that doing S2 quick runs pays more per time spent than S3 raids, but I do 20 in like 25 min. Now you just made that take almost 5 extra minutes for 20 extra cores. And spent 1.3 mil. Why wouldn't you just run 5 more S2 raids instead and get more than 3x more cores without burning gold?

  • NokaubureNokaubure
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    ikevi wrote: »
    What I often see are folks with 100 luck not using blessing, and not using a badge still spending 65k per run for that extra core. You basically just agreed for me that again doing those 2 things are much more cost effective than buying the fire buff.

    They are dumb then, I always use blessings, even on the ben chenner s3 raids, its just stupid to not use a thing that is basically free with AP maxed
    ikevi wrote: »
    Or are you trying to say that 117 luck for at most 20k a raid (if you only run 6 raids a day all of them the meh drop S3s now...) is somehow worse than a guaranteed +1 core? (Because 117 luck should give you on average~1.8 extra cores in a 4 core raid. Course RNG is rng so results will vary ;-)

    Never said that, also remember that campfire gives 5 luk, so it triggers another +1 core if nobody puts a blessing. Cadet badge is only worth if you play a lot and do a lot of raids, while campfire is worth if you use it on high profit raids like dullahan and aes. So, in my opinion, they are useful, but they shouldn't be used on ben chenner raids.

    StormCrusher
  • PuppymanPuppyman
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    Nokaubure wrote: »
    Cadet badge is only worth if you play a lot and do a lot of raids

    It's also good for free 600 power to reach Aes reqs on alts

    ssxWh7W.png

  • SansaSansa
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    Do people know that if you place a camp down intended just for you, you get the buffs without needing to put wood in.

    So many people complain when someone starts the run early without camp, when these people can just put one down themselves if they really want the buff benefits.... :# So many people give me attitude when I tell them this, lol.
  • BOK_CHOIBOK_CHOI
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    Sansa wrote: »
    Do people know that if you place a camp down intended just for you, you get the buffs without needing to put wood in.

    So many people complain when someone starts the run early without camp, when these people can just put one down themselves if they really want the buff benefits.... :# So many people give me attitude when I tell them this, lol.

    When I'm not interested in getting the camp buff I still wait for about 10 seconds before heading in to summon the boss, if no one has deployed the fire during that time. But occasionally even then I get complaints (e.g. from someone who had just started making a fire at the MOMENT I spawn the boss, followed by someone else whining about missing out on the extra core).

    ...and some other times I see everyone picking up wood but no one actually deploying the fire itself...then I just head in. :p


    In regards to the original topic...
    In my case the uses of campfire depend on how frequently I'm playing at the time.
    Nowadays I'm a bit more busy & play less frequently, so the amount of drops for me per raid matters a bit more now. So I just promptly deploy a fire on each raid I join, along with slapping in a luck blessing stone each time, too (when I'm playing more frequently again I plan to stop this practice for the early S3 raids).
  • DragonRiderDragonRider
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    Madcobra wrote: »
    Because ppl believe in extra luck and its just another trick to pull out some gold from players . I have the same luck with or withouth camp

    pretty much this. ^

    ive buffed myself to 125 LUK (with all superior camp buffs extra drop, plus LUK green gem or divine blessing on runs, plus VVIP extra drop, plus QB battle for extra drop, etc etc) for one month straight of raids ON TWO CHARACTERS. Only saw 2 orange chunks, and 1 abomination essence (the rest were a few level 90 oranges sometimes that only were worth 300k or so). My grand total of profit was roughly 40 mil gold from all those runs with 125 LUK for one month on 2 characters each. I've seen people with only 100 LUK get more orange drops (valuable ones over 10 mil) who run in my party than I did.

    It is just NOT worth all that time to do 10 raids a day (per character), around 10 minutes or more each depending on the party... 200 minutes total a day (roughly over 3 hours) to only net in 40 mil gold in that 1 month (84 hours total)?? After that 1 month experiment, I no longer do raids or buy into Nexon's "LUK" stat so much. My time is better spent elsewhere.

    Conclusion: LUK stat hardly helps at all in the grand scheme of things, its a very small, minor factor... and in my opinion, more of a mind-trick gold sink by devcat to think you're bound to get some good drops, but you arent.
  • JeyemJeyem
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    It makes no difference, just make-believe. Like Magic Elixirs. Somebody gets lucky and says omg dude totally use it, nah dont buy into it.