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Why do people join raids with lower than 1300 AD?

Question2Question2
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in General Discussion
You get free gear at level 90 with 1300 AD. Yet I keep seig people join raids with very low amounts of AD. Sometimes as low as 500 or less. Like...why? The free +10 gear does very little damage as it is. Someone with like 800 AD has about 3k less ATT than the free +10 gear which is massive. Most of the time, these guys are using cosmetic armor or clean OJ level 90s/purple level 95 gear.

When I ask them to please switch to the free +10 gear they either leave or react with hostility, so the are definately doing it on purpose rather than it being an honest mistake. I don't understand the mentality where people would deliberately undergear themselves when joining a raid that someone else is hosting...even if you wanted to make it harder for yourself, you would solo it rather than do it on someone else's boat right?

Comments

  • hornywatermelonhornywatermelon
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    Because they can
    Because you don't put restrictions
    Because they want to leech drops with minimal effort
    Because they are mental illiterates?
    Because I dunno free game?
  • Ryr7eRyr7e
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    I didnt know ppl statchecked in this game anymore

    Im a bit hesitant nowadays to click start over leave party when i see the 1 bars load in. But i always click it without caring too much
  • ArishanteArishante
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    Obviously they don't like the free set appearance. I'd rather get wrecked in a apocryphal set than in a terminus sentinel. And i wouldn't take well some stranger asking me to remove my clothes in his presence.
  • YagaminYagamin
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    edited December 18, 2017
    Because you don't put restrictions

    well AD isn't part of Power or Tech, the only restriction you can control.
    Ryr7e wrote: »
    Im a bit hesitant nowadays to click start over leave party when i see the 1 bars load in. But i always click it without caring too much

    For the record, this AU player here is generally 1-2 bars, but has zero lag on US boats and can generally outdps everyone that isn't a whale. Unless you're a bad host anyway and everyone who joins lags.

    Still get kicked by some with the reason "lag" by players like D*******E**r/VI*******s (you know who you are, so I won't name directly) despite explaining that I don't lag and can clearly move fine without lag on the boat...
  • PlayerOOOlPlayerOOOl
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    Because we don't see any active raids these days.
    If I see any raid is up, I will join evne if my char is only lvl 1.
  • boddoleboddole
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    edited December 18, 2017
    *If they are new, they probably have no idea how strong AD is and just look at it like ATT, that's probably the number 1 reason.

    Well, I suppose I've got a 'special case' though I'm not sure if it applies to the people you are seeing. Before the Seal Shop updates, I had a +10 weap. and armor with 'optimal' scrolls, max bal, high AS, blah blah blah...The free set killed my balance and dropped my attack (either with the Weap/Armor or both) to the point where my lower AD gear had an overall higher output, both on paper and in real life.

    In all honesty, I can't say I've ever check anyone's gear or cared to (and even in Dulla's case, anyone with a POW rating high enough to join is going to have that AD anyway).
  • RowboCopRowboCop
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    edited December 18, 2017
    Question2 wrote: »
    You get free gear at level 90 with 1300 AD. Yet I keep seig people join raids with very low amounts of AD. Sometimes as low as 500 or less. Like...why? The free +10 gear does very little damage as it is. Someone with like 800 AD has about 3k less ATT than the free +10 gear which is massive.

    Can somebody explain where the 3k attk number comes from? Are you saying 500AD (1300-800) is equivalent to 3k attk? How was the 3k derived?
  • AtherionAtherion
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    1 ad = 6.25 atk assuming attack cap and no attack limit.
  • IkarsuIkarsu
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    People join raids to get drops. Doesn't matter if they have high additional damage or not... As long as they know the mechanics of the fight and survive, then they are fine.

    While they do not have the offensive capability, they can at least help out when going for the break off OR help the higher ups if they happen to get instantly killed and do not have graces.

    Would you rather have 3 less feathers all because they do not have the AD for the battle where they can have the chance to get the gear they need to progress?

    It's not really harder than myself considering I can do an entire fight myself. The HP doesn't scale according to party anyway, so what's the point of kicking them out?

    This is Just dragon nest all over again. Can't join a nest because they don't have the final damage, but they need to do the nest to get final damage gear. where's a catch 22 when I need it?
  • PuppymanPuppyman
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    Ikarsu wrote: »
    People join raids to get drops. Doesn't matter if they have high additional damage or not... As long as they know the mechanics of the fight and survive, then they are fine.

    While they do not have the offensive capability, they can at least help out when going for the break off OR help the higher ups if they happen to get instantly killed and do not have graces.

    Would you rather have 3 less feathers all because they do not have the AD for the battle where they can have the chance to get the gear they need to progress?

    It's not really harder than myself considering I can do an entire fight myself. The HP doesn't scale according to party anyway, so what's the point of kicking them out?

    This is Just dragon nest all over again. Can't join a nest because they don't have the final damage, but they need to do the nest to get final damage gear. where's a catch 22 when I need it?

    While I get your point, i'm sure Question2 is just confused why people would use weaker gear when they have free, better gear available to them.

    In comparison to DN, say a player were to join a battle with store bought gear instead of other better, easily available gear. [At least I think there was npc sold weak gear in DN]
  • Question2Question2
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    edited December 18, 2017
    Doesn't matter if they have high additional damage or not... As long as they know the mechanics of the fight and survive, then they are fine.

    It actually matters a lot. Two players who know the raid, one player has 500 more AD, the player with 500 more AD will do masively more damage. Thats how the game works. 1 AD = 6.25 ATT which ignores the attack cap. That is massive. It's why people spend 500+m on a set of +12 armor instead of settling for +10.

    People with 1300 AD as it is basically do 10-15% damage to the boss as it is in a well geared party even if they play very well. Most people play average or worse. Its not uncommon for two players combined to do 80-90% of the damage.

    Someone with very low AD (500 or less) is going to do 5% or less.

    Everyone should be trying to maximize DPS whether it is via skill or gear. Refusing to put on appropriate gear is like refusing to use smashes on the boss...yea you are going to do some damage, its just going to be insignificant. There is no reason for the party to take you when there are plenty of players who are more than happy to play properly. What is the point of kicking them out? A better question is, what is the point of NOT kicking them out when you can usually get someone who will do much more damage in the next 2 minutes and who is obviously putting in effort, vs someone who is not?

    It's like people who do dumb **** like refusing to shield party members in lugh or deliberately triggering the braha switch too early to make the bombing fail. If you think you are "lol so hilarious amirite???" do it on your party where you don't affect anyone else. I've had to do 30+ minute s3 raids before because the host and his friend thought it would be hilarious to swap to level 0 training weapons right before launching, they obviously did no damage in the raid and spent most of the raid dead or laughing in chat. Sabotaging the party is blatant trolling.

    If this was WoW and someone showed up to a mythic raid in newbie gear on purpose even though they had much better gear available, they wouldn't be allowed to go either. Pretty much all MMO communities dislike it when people try to sabotage raids and other party efforts, this isnt something unique to vindi.
  • Question2Question2
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    boddole wrote: »
    *If they are new, they probably have no idea how strong AD is and just look at it like ATT, that's probably the number 1 reason.

    Well, I suppose I've got a 'special case' though I'm not sure if it applies to the people you are seeing. Before the Seal Shop updates, I had a +10 weap. and armor with 'optimal' scrolls, max bal, high AS, blah blah blah...The free set killed my balance and dropped my attack (either with the Weap/Armor or both) to the point where my lower AD gear had an overall higher output, both on paper and in real life.

    In all honesty, I can't say I've ever check anyone's gear or cared to (and even in Dulla's case, anyone with a POW rating high enough to join is going to have that AD anyway).

    AD isnt reflected in power/technique stats. I've seen people in clean purple dulla armor join QB dulla boats before.
  • Question2Question2
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    boddole wrote: »
    *If they are new, they probably have no idea how strong AD is and just look at it like ATT, that's probably the number 1 reason.

    Well, I suppose I've got a 'special case' though I'm not sure if it applies to the people you are seeing. Before the Seal Shop updates, I had a +10 weap. and armor with 'optimal' scrolls, max bal, high AS, blah blah blah...The free set killed my balance and dropped my attack (either with the Weap/Armor or both) to the point where my lower AD gear had an overall higher output, both on paper and in real life.

    In all honesty, I can't say I've ever check anyone's gear or cared to (and even in Dulla's case, anyone with a POW rating high enough to join is going to have that AD anyway).

    They obviously know about it. A new player who doesn't know would ask why and then we could explain that it is for the AD and AD makes a huge difference in damage.

    I have only had one case where a confused returning player didnt know what the free +10 gear was and insisted he couldn't find it. He eventually found it in his mail after a very long time though. The rest leave and/or proceed to ****. You literally have free, better gear available but refuse to use it...how do you expect people to sympathize with you? This isn't like being stuck with a +8 weapon in the old days because you can't afford runes, you are literally handed free +10 gear at level 90.
  • BOK_CHOIBOK_CHOI
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    I myself at one point had my Vella & Evie wearing +8 purple fully enchanted Dullahan armor set instead of the given free +10 lvl 90 armor.
    My defense to this is about 2k DEF difference between the +10 lvl 90 and +8 lvl 95, at a cost of 100~200 AD (so I still had the AD of low-1000s).

    Sure I would've had better DPS with the free armor, but what good is the theoretical DPS if you keep losing 50~75% of your health each time Dullahan slaps you, right? I just didn't want to be a glass cannon, and the extra 2k DEF helped a lot when I was still inexperienced with my characters.

    And I wasn't about to spend runes to get my fully-purple armor to +10, so +8 was as far as I took 'em for the time being.
    Yes, eventually I did swap out the main essences with orange ones and got them all to +10 and above (still in progress with +11 and above), along with getting my weapons to +12~+13. Now all my characters now have the AD of 2300~3300.

    Of course I'm not trying to defend all cases of people joining raids with sub-1300 AD, but I believe I've had a valid reasoning in my case.
    I'm sure many of 'em are work-in-progress like I was (still am), and if they're committed players, they won't have that low AD value forever.
  • Sir_RenderSir_Render
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    edited December 19, 2017
    Arishante wrote: »
    Obviously they don't like the free set appearance. I'd rather get wrecked in a apocryphal set than in a terminus sentinel. And i wouldn't take well some stranger asking me to remove my clothes in his presence.
    Buy "Packaged" gear in the market it's generally 2mil each and it hides parts of the armor if you don't like it

  • boddoleboddole
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    @Question2:
    "I've seen people in clean purple dulla armor join QB dulla boats before."
    O...really didn't think they would have the POW/TEC rating to pull it off...interesting. More surprised about the TEC I suppose...wasn't Dulla 195? Seems high for clean purple gear.

    "They obviously know about it. A new player who doesn't know would ask why and then we could explain that it is for the AD and AD makes a huge difference in damage."
    Well, that's just the thing...Its obvious to us because 'we' have been trained to not believe anything nexon says and question / test / data mine everything. I'm more skeptical that a truly 'new' player would have this behavior / attitude right off the bat, especially when something like 'additional damage' (to me anyway) would imply it is a 'secondary stat'. Not to mention QB uses ratings (and explains such as a tool tip) that isn't based on AD. So I don't think that its unreasonable for a new player to think 'well...it seems to be a secondary stat, QB / POW doesn't even use it for ratings...I meet / exceed the requirement...I must be okay'.

    All that said, again, I do agree that it is strange, but I guess outside of Dulla, its never been a big enough issue for me to notice/care (then again, I'm not going for 2 min raid clears). That also brings up the issues of boss HP re-balancing, and that now more than ever gear crushes skill...but that's a whole different problem.

    "You literally have free, better gear available but refuse to use it"
    -As to why new players with lvl 80 gear wouldn't use the free set, yeah, that is kinda of hard to explain. Perhaps it comes from new player bulldozing their way to 90, and just not appreciating how much things changed over that 1 level into the new bracket, especially as far as AD is concerned. I don't know, maybe try asking a few of them?

    "AD isnt reflected in power/technique stats."
    Yeah, interesting choice on their part to omit it, considering the influence it has. Did KR ever add it on their side?
  • IkarsuIkarsu
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    Question2 wrote: »

    It actually matters a lot. Two players who know the raid, one player has 500 more AD, the player with 500 more AD will do masively more damage. Thats how the game works. 1 AD = 6.25 ATT which ignores the attack cap. That is massive. It's why people spend 500+m on a set of +12 armor instead of settling for +10.

    People with 1300 AD as it is basically do 10-15% damage to the boss as it is in a well geared party even if they play very well. Most people play average or worse. Its not uncommon for two players combined to do 80-90% of the damage.

    Someone with very low AD (500 or less) is going to do 5% or less.

    Would someone provide a source of this claim far as the AD att conversion that bypasses the limit...

    Secondly, the game is already unbalanced as it is because some characters benefiting more with a +15 when compared to others. Take for instance spear lann and his "spin 2 win" mechanic, along with miri's blocking and attacking at the same time wheel attacks. The point is I'm just basically tired of this whole dps race that got introduced since 2012 and has torn apart the community since.

    In a nutshell: if you find incompetent group members, just trick the game into thinking you crashed when they all die and see who has the last laugh... sometimes people need a taste of their own medicine.

    PS: you can't do damage anyway if you're dead. Case en point you can spend over 5 billion to max out gear and still get instantly killed due to boss mechanics. *drinks wine* I've seen too many of these cases to count, including buggy abomination runs.

    Cause posts like these regarding claims over something and a "certain stat" mattering to the whole game is the sole reason why I went into the 5 month hiatus in the first place.


    SaintGuinness
  • Sir_RenderSir_Render
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    edited December 19, 2017
    Ikarsu wrote: »



    PS: you can't do damage anyway if you're dead. Case en point you can spend over 5 billion to max out gear and still get instantly killed due to boss mechanics. *drinks wine* I've seen too many of these cases to count, including buggy abomination runs.



    THIS IS WHY TEAMATES NEED TO START REVIVING EACH OTHER!
    Ikarsu
  • MadcobraMadcobra
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    Why not ? Its not like raids are any challenge anymore . I dont mind carry 3 more players with low add dmg its more fun when raid takes longer then 2 min
  • IkarsuIkarsu
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    Sir_Render wrote: »


    THIS IS WHY TEAMATES NEED TO START REVIVING EACH OTHER!

    per GG usage, NX becomes 30 cents richer. per mega asking for GF, NX becomes 5 cents richer. Lets think about that for a second. :*