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How should newbies gear up for armor?

Question2Question2
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edited December 18, 2017 in General Discussion
If you are a newbie you obviously want to get OJ armor with enchants after getting a +13 weapon. The question is, should they go level 90 or 95 OJ? Level 90 is obviously cheaper, but its still worthless unless its at least +10 with enchants on it. r7 prefixes are cheaper due to r6 prefixes being available, but r7 suffixes are still the same price. I'm not sure if a newbie should spend a fortune on runes/scrolls for level 90 armor when new content is being balanced for people in level 95 armor.

Price wise, I think clean level 90 OJ armor is about 5m on NA assuming decent rolls? While clean dullahan armor is about 25m or more? You still need the same amount of runes which is the tricky part...the amount of runes you need for a full +10 armor set is 15 or more on average (not counting the usage of +1 coupons) and it seems a waste on level 90 armor.
  1. Should newbies use level 90 or 95 armor for their first +10 OJ armor set?33 votes
    1. Level 90
       30% (10 votes)
    2. Level 95
       70% (23 votes)

Comments

  • Ryr7eRyr7e
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    Upgrade from freebie set to 95.
    +10 on these pieces gives decent AD.
    enhancing a 90 set isnt worth it for most ppl.


    Im using the free set while playing miri. Not intentionally facetanking to dps actually feels like im playing vindi again
    SaintGuinness
  • AxxonAxxon
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    edited December 18, 2017
    37 000 Power is kinda hard to reach with the Freebie set. I need to push my 90 OJ Weapon (that I had before Rise, so I keep it while at it) to +13 and put a few passion and forces to reach Dullahan requirement (no way I waste money for Enthu on Purple free gear...)

    The Technique requirement is easy, but the power requirement ? not so much. So I would suggest investing ona OJ 90 Weapon +13 and keep the armor as it is with a few Forces and W-B as required for the Tech/Power Requirement then push a few passions since the new accessories should be done last.
  • LoLoBootyLoLoBooty
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    Axxon wrote: »
    37 000 Power is kinda hard to reach with the Freebie set. I need to push my 90 OJ Weapon (that I had before Rise, so I keep it while at it) to +13 and put a few passion and forces to reach Dullahan requirement (no way I waste money for Enthu on Purple free gear...)

    The Technique requirement is easy, but the power requirement ? not so much. So I would suggest investing ona OJ 90 Weapon +13 and keep the armor as it is with a few Forces and W-B as required for the Tech/Power Requirement then push a few passions since the new accessories should be done last.

    The technique requirement is easy if you are an Evie\Sylas. Don't underestimate that free +5 crit from the Fomorian book...
  • boddoleboddole
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    edited December 18, 2017
    Without a spreadsheet and actual numbers, I don't know what we can really say definitively...That said my current thoughts:

    *Assuming new player really means new player (not an old player with a new char), meaning they won't have saved runes, cash reserves, and aren't Golden Gods on one or more characters (ie. don't get hit much).

    The Weapon:
    A month or two ago, I probably would have just said 'get Dulla and be done with it', since the +ATT and +Crit are a big jump. However, given the crazy oj prices right now I can't recommend that (which have steadily increased since it was new...). Granted, you need the same amount of runes to get to +10, but now the Seal Shop gives you up to +13 for 90s. So now its a question of spend money (if they have it) vs. grinding Sobs for a 90. Additionally, getting the QB POW Reqs. isn't the most straight forward thing even with a +13 oj weap. New players won't have Neam rewards, maxed components (probably, though maybe the prices are low enough to buy high rolls now). Not to mention that apparently Aes/the boss after that will add 2k to the ATT Cap...which is problematic.

    The Armor:
    I'd lean a bit more to going with 95 armor, since it has more def/Crit Res. (helps with POW / keeping new squishy players alive), takes the same amount of runes, and costs the same for MS as 90s do (I think...). That said, if the prices of components for 90 ojs have dropped a lot, you may be able to buy a more/less maxed set 90 for the same/lesser price as so-so 95 oj mats. Of course this also gets into the issue of 2/3* gear which may also include replacement fees for 95/90...

    So...its confusing, and aside from making a big spreadsheet and plugging in numbers to prefab gear setups I don't think 95/90 is 'clearly ahead' of the other.
  • IkarsuIkarsu
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    edited December 18, 2017
    The strength capabilities from the armors are practically the same, but the defensive capabilities from Dullahan is vastly greater than what the 90 gear is capable of.

    The issue is that the Dullahan gear is more expensive/rare than the 90 gear, which makes it almost not a viable option. Most cost 7-12M just to assemble each part of armor.

    90s take less than 3M to assemble. and can be done with farming seals.

    It all depends on the player and what they want to do, but for me, defensive capability is just plain useless when you can still have 14,000 defense and die in 3 hits from Dullahan.

    As far as the weapon difference is concerned...

    90: 11,800 attack 75 balance 56 critical ) can be obtained from seal shop or costing around 25M to buy the oranges in market. They cannot use rank 6 scrolls obtained from S3 raids, where glas can drop heartless and chaotic.

    95: 14,800 attack 68 balance 71 critical ) can only drop from dullahan and the respective bosses to assemble the weapon and requires more work, or costing over 250M just to buy a clean from mp.

    This is at base 2 star with max rolls on orange parts respectively.

    For a new player, the dullahan gear is NOT possible unless by some miracle they can get 500M in total.
  • KMonkKMonk
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    Dullahan is like playing chicken and egg. In order to enter Dullahan, it seems that you have to wear Dullahan items which are not available to you unless you have already killed Dullahan 100 times to get them oranges. Or are you saying that you don't actually need Dullahan stuff to enter or clear it?
  • boddoleboddole
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    @KMonk:
    -Well, you definitely don't *need* dulla gear to run/clear dulla. But for new players it becomes confusing as to what they should 'invest' in to maximize their mixture of content availability / cost to POW / time they play.
  • Order5Order5
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    edited December 18, 2017
    KMonk wrote: »
    Dullahan is like playing chicken and egg. In order to enter Dullahan, it seems that you have to wear Dullahan items which are not available to you unless you have already killed Dullahan 100 times to get them oranges. Or are you saying that you don't actually need Dullahan stuff to enter or clear it?

    Clearing Dullahan does not require much gearing at all, you just need it to efficiently farm it. Four players at 20k ATT, 1300 AD, and 18k DEF (basically replace all ES with DEF-based ones) can face-tank Dullahan within 55 minutes using 200 Fine HP Potions. The only thing they really need skill on is the bombing.
  • Question2Question2
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    Axxon wrote: »
    37 000 Power is kinda hard to reach with the Freebie set. I need to push my 90 OJ Weapon (that I had before Rise, so I keep it while at it) to +13 and put a few passion and forces to reach Dullahan requirement (no way I waste money for Enthu on Purple free gear...)

    The Technique requirement is easy, but the power requirement ? not so much. So I would suggest investing ona OJ 90 Weapon +13 and keep the armor as it is with a few Forces and W-B as required for the Tech/Power Requirement then push a few passions since the new accessories should be done last.

    Sentinel is cheap and gives decent boosts, much better than force IMHO. Throw in soap and ap shop epaulet/necklace and you should be easily hit 37k.
  • Question2Question2
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    edited December 18, 2017
    KMonk wrote: »
    Dullahan is like playing chicken and egg. In order to enter Dullahan, it seems that you have to wear Dullahan items which are not available to you unless you have already killed Dullahan 100 times to get them oranges. Or are you saying that you don't actually need Dullahan stuff to enter or clear it?

    You just need to meet QB requirements, which can be done with free +10 armor, cheap scrolls and temp buffs. But Dulla is balanced for player in full level 95 OJ enchanted gear. I had maxed out +10 level 90 armor, full material synthesis, and I had less than 16k DEF with premium soap/epaulet. Dullahan was still hitting me for like 2.5k+. Upgrading a few pieces to +12 dulla armor has bumped me up to just under 18k and i am taking less than half the damage from before.

    The way DEF works, once you go up a "tier" (and we dont know for sure how the tiers are seperated), you take massively less damage. Its a non-linear curve basically.

    Thats not the point though, the point of the thread is that if you are a new player and want to get your first OJ enchanted armor set, would you be better off investing in level 90 or 95 armor, taking into account their relative prices?
  • VerexVerex
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    i prefer going hybrid
    lv 90: top and greaves
    95: helmet, boots and gloves

    you skip the expensive parts but you still have enough def and access to 2weepings and 1heartless + the lv 90 set effect
    Order5
  • Sir_RenderSir_Render
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    Having started Miri from scratch my plan is simply to Enchant a set of 95 armor and use the seal shop to get a 90 weapon to +13
    I believe that it is the best way to go about it after you permabind the 90weapon use it to gather the ingredients to make a 95 weapon and then try your best from there
  • MadcobraMadcobra
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    edited December 19, 2017
    Funny thing because i still see megas sent by op players about that they want to buy +14 Or +15 lvl 90 armor . Some ppl just forget that soon cap crit will be more then 150 and they think only how to buff add dmg by less cost . But by having good weapon 95 lvl dont really will matter if the armor is 90 lvl , so maybe those megas are not so funny how they look . After all its more cheap to make +13 + 14 or + 15 lvl 90armor then lvl 95 if someone caremore to have 95 lvl weapon then 90 lvl
  • PuppymanPuppyman
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    edited December 19, 2017
    A good, cheap starting point that I have for all my chars is getting +13 weapon [super easy with seals] and keeping +10 armor given.
    Then you work to getting r7 enchants on the weapon along with well-balanced enthusiastic for armor. Also accessories with fast/passion and whatnot.
    All the enchants aside from r7, you can farm from s2 raids. [Boring but practically free and goes hand in hand with a new char since these ex-raids give good ap]
    From there you just either build a Dully set or save up to buy premade.

    [This set lets you get enough stats to join quick battle Dully, but you'll have to be good cause he will hurt with this set, but at least you'll sit around 60-70 speed]
    LoLoBootyOrder5
  • LoLoBootyLoLoBooty
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    edited December 19, 2017
    Question2 wrote: »
    Axxon wrote: »
    37 000 Power is kinda hard to reach with the Freebie set. I need to push my 90 OJ Weapon (that I had before Rise, so I keep it while at it) to +13 and put a few passion and forces to reach Dullahan requirement (no way I waste money for Enthu on Purple free gear...)

    The Technique requirement is easy, but the power requirement ? not so much. So I would suggest investing ona OJ 90 Weapon +13 and keep the armor as it is with a few Forces and W-B as required for the Tech/Power Requirement then push a few passions since the new accessories should be done last.

    Sentinel is cheap and gives decent boosts, much better than force IMHO. Throw in soap and ap shop epaulet/necklace and you should be easily hit 37k.

    Have you ever tried to gear a player with "poverty armor/weapon" for Dully requirements? I have done it on multiple characters and I can say you do not "easily hit 37k". You will be put in the 33K range and buffs alone won't be enough.

    Now that the seal shop will get you a +13 I need to revisit how a dully purple weapon stacks against Lv90 seal shop weapons and which makes more sense in my Power and Tech guide.

    What's more important to a newbie player is costs. Since a high enhancement rate and AD are the most important things it doesn't make sense for a new player to consider either a 90 or 95 armor set. In addition to to costs to purchasing the armor itself the real costs is in reapplying all enchants and getting all pieces back to +10 or greater. Newbies need to save gold towards a future weapon.
    Order5
  • HallyHally
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    edited December 20, 2017
    To meet dulla reqs cheaply:

    - Max out equipment prof, critical hit, defense mastery with AP. Those give quite a bit of "power"
    - Put cost effective enchants like wb, sentinel on your free armor.
    - Buy a PURPLE +10 dulla weapon.
    - Use cost effective enchants like sparkling, healthy, divine punishment.
    - (If you are still a little short, get a crimson blade epaulet, it's only 1500 ap per week).

    Congratulations, you met the dulla qb req without even needing soap. Mission gold from completing all story quest is enough to pay for all of the above.

    Now you just save up money from your grinds and buy pre-enchanted +10 armor when they go on the market. It'll typically be much cheaper than what it cost to make it yourself.
  • LoLoBootyLoLoBooty
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    edited December 20, 2017
    Hally wrote: »
    To meet dulla reqs cheaply:

    - Max out equipment prof, critical hit, defense mastery with AP. Those give quite a bit of "power"
    - Put cost effective enchants like wb, sentinel on your free armor.
    - Buy a PURPLE +10 dulla weapon.
    - Use cost effective enchants like sparkling, healthy, divine punishment.
    - (If you are still a little short, get a crimson blade epaulet, it's only 1500 ap per week).

    Congratulations, you met the dulla qb req without even needing soap. Mission gold from completing all story quest is enough to pay for all of the above.

    Now you just save up money from your grinds and buy pre-enchanted +10 armor when they go on the market. It'll typically be much cheaper than what it cost to make it yourself.

    Hey @Hally check this out:
    http://forums.vindictus.nexon.net/discussion/comment/43454/#Comment_43454
    See the screenshot in step 4. That screenshot was taken with a +8 purple dully weapon, rank A or higher on pertinent skills, and all cost effective enchants applied. The title count reflects what the average newbie user would have (~200+ titles). Nowhere close to meeting the dulla qb req @ 33K. You will definitely need soaps.

  • HallyHally
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    I'll admit I forgot to count titles. I'm getting 400+ extra str/agi/wil from titles. That's about 2k pow worth and 4 extra crit.. which would explain why I don't need soap on new chars.

    Your screenshot char is missing something though...
    I get 201 tech, would be 197 with my extra wil taken away. Did you replace subpar scrolls like enduring and resistant on that char?
    Also.. remember spellbook now give you 402 extra attack to work with.
  • LoLoBootyLoLoBooty
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    Hally wrote: »
    I'll admit I forgot to count titles. I'm getting 400+ extra str/agi/wil from titles. That's about 2k pow worth and 4 extra crit.. which would explain why I don't need soap on new chars.

    Your screenshot char is missing something though...
    I get 201 tech, would be 197 with my extra wil taken away. Did you replace subpar scrolls like enduring and resistant on that char?
    Also.. remember spellbook now give you 402 extra attack to work with.

    Yes resistant was replaced with sentinel for +1 tech. Enduring I can't remember but I don't think I replaced. Also I believe I accidently took the screenshot with a +2 Tech event buff but in the end I did not have that buff.

    The guide was made before the spellbook changes. I hope to do a quick update covering spellbook and level 90 weapon changes soon.
  • CaelestineCaelestine
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    edited December 21, 2017
    I think people have different defintions of "noob," but I will say that all my characters are using the freebie gear with +10 purple dullahan weapons. With the hot springs buff and enchanting all my gear with wb/sentinel/resistant and weapon with adamant/maelstrom, and strong/healthy (super cheap, can just enchant without elixirs lol), I can reach the qb stats pretty easily. I don't even need an outfitter, but I do use fine gems in copper bracelets (only for the attack part).

    I think the problem with making new gear from scratch is that the enchanting part is the worst. Add damage isn't registered on the qb reqs, but things that improve bal are crucial if I want to use my dully weapon so I can get to the attack cap.

    Edit: just wanted to say that dully armor is actually pretty cheap if you don't use orange solid chunks. In fact the essences are about 1/4 or 1/3 the price of the chunks. The orange chunks only give a little bit of str/int compared to purple (sometimes the same), which imo isn't worth it if you're on a budget and not super ocd. Meanwhile, purple solid chunks or only 500k, while smooth chunks are ~30k. You can probably make an entire unenhancted, unenhanced dully set (with orange essences) for about 40-50mil. The problem, in the end is the enchanting, which will cost hundreds of millions.