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Should RNG be Removed from enhancement?

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  • MiracleMiracle
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    Why does everyone want everything for free? Powerful weapons like +15s wouldnt have any value if everyone had one. Scrolls wouldnt give you the "WOOT I GOT A RARE" feeling if they were easily obtainable. A 15 weapon to me is not required in end game. Players that made one risked a lot of power and gold, players that made one had the balls to enhance and they deserved it for taking the chance most of you chickens would never dare.

    Ya you can fail, thats just the price you pay for an attempt at power.
    Aqua22BloodAngel
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    Resetting from +6-+8 is garbage. Durability loss is fine, but players should be able to reasonably move their weapons up to a viable level for playing leveling content and daily areas. Resetting to +8 on +9/+10 would be an okay addition. Runes for +11->+12 like the one we got over the summer should be able to be acquired more often. From +13-+15 is fine that it's risky, but I agree that two failures and a weapon you worked for months to gain being gone is still garbage. Even TERA with its horrible RNG doesn't destroy items on failure and adds a slightly increased chance each time you fail. Their players still aren't all running around with +15s.

    Enchanting is being fixed somewhat. A lot of the old R9/8s are being rolled back to Rank A. 40% stick chance needs to be revamped on the R7s, or the drop rate needs to go up. The only reason we have scroll in circulation at reasonable levels at any point is having a high population to overcome the RNG; right now the population is mediocre and so scroll prices have stayed stupidly high for months. Even with some of the fixes bringing overall costs down, scrolls stay high if the shop isn't in place, which has only happened once before. Again, item destruction for failure needs a balance.

    This thread isn't the only time that players have suggested infinite revives. This game has the best combat out there, but it also has the harshest consequences for failure out there. That needs to change.
    Aqua22VahelDiRaizelPixelPantsu
  • BreadmanBreadman
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    edited November 18, 2016
    Miracle
    Miracle said:

    Why does everyone want everything for free? Powerful weapons like +15s wouldnt have any value if everyone had one. Scrolls wouldnt give you the "WOOT I GOT A RARE" feeling if they were easily obtainable. A 15 weapon to me is not required in end game. Players that made one risked a lot of power and gold, players that made one had the balls to enhance and they deserved it for taking the chance most of you chickens would never dare.

    Ya you can fail, thats just the price you pay for an attempt at power.
    Then there're people that have farmed for months/years and still end up with nothing but dust right? You can say it's their fault, but the thing is that there isn't a guarantee you'll even get anywhere even if you play like a Korean. I know someone who double broke 26 +10s endgames and not even one made it past 12.
    No one is suggesting things be handed for free in a silver platter. Alot of the posts in this thread suggest an equivalent and long farm to replace having things blow in your face all the time. 

    And like you said, +15s aren't required in endgame, so why not make it something attainable if you put in the work for it? And by work, I don't mean run a gauntlet of RNG BS. I wouldn't even mind if they nerfed enhances for this.
  • GewelliriousGewellirious
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    Tho, I read somewhere that enhancement changes on KR benefits a total reset for lv80 weapons only from +8 to +10 now. However, no changes for lv90 weapons.
  • MiracleMiracle
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    Breadman
    Breadman said:

    Miracle
    Miracle said:

    Why does everyone want everything for free? Powerful weapons like +15s wouldnt have any value if everyone had one. Scrolls wouldnt give you the "WOOT I GOT A RARE" feeling if they were easily obtainable. A 15 weapon to me is not required in end game. Players that made one risked a lot of power and gold, players that made one had the balls to enhance and they deserved it for taking the chance most of you chickens would never dare.

    Ya you can fail, thats just the price you pay for an attempt at power.
    Then there're people that have farmed for months/years and still end up with nothing but dust right? You can say it's their fault, but the thing is that there isn't a guarantee you'll even get anywhere even if you play like a Korean. I know someone who double broke 26 +10s endgames and not even one made it past 12.
    No one is suggesting things be handed for free in a silver platter. Alot of the posts in this thread suggest an equivalent and long farm to replace having things blow in your face all the time. 

    And like you said, +15s aren't required in endgame, so why not make it something attainable if you put in the work for it? And by work, I don't mean run a gauntlet of RNG BS. I wouldn't even mind if they nerfed enhances for this.
    Ferghus is a Casino, your friend went in knowing full well there is a chance all his weapons will blow up and it did, he didn't need to yet he did it anyway.
    That isn't the games fault that he was set behind because he took that risk.

    Yeah, you can put in the work for it, S3 Materials are expensive, Niffleheim Fine gems drop quite frequently and sell for a nice income of consistent gold, you can technically brain dead farm gold to a point where you can buy a +15 weapon or whatever you want from someone else. Reality is no one wants to do this, because no one really wants to put in the work. Instead they do 2 raids a day, get nothing, proceed to go afk in town for 8 hours, then complain about RNG.

    Most players just don't use their time efficiently hence why the average player in this game is so damn basic even with a seal shop.
    6starplayerBloodAngel
  • 6starplayer6starplayer
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    edited November 18, 2016
    I agree with Miracle here. This game is very pay-to-win, having a +10 to +12 is already good enough. Having a +15 in a pay-to-win game is very impressive. And with the enhancement system the way it is, you can see why.
    If RNG were removed and it's easier for whatever reason to make a +15, and everyone is using +15's, then this game would be in easy-mode. It has already gotten easier to do s2 raids compare to back in 2012-2013 because everyone has better stats now with level 90 items & character revamps.
  • ZiggyStardustZiggyStardust
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    edited November 18, 2016
    Miracle
    Miracle said:

    Ferghus is a Casino, your friend went in knowing full well there is a chance all his weapons will blow up and it did, he didn't need to yet he did it anyway. That isn't the games fault that he was set behind because he took that risk.
    i guess he/she just didn't want to be a chicken. Might have even thought he/she deserved it because he/she was willing to risk it.

  • TheDazzlingTheDazzling
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    No Mira >:I It's okay to ask for free stuff....if You're skilled like that Arisha From West "TheDazzling" +wink I've heard Dazz is the best in the world and Korea and Japan and the Solar system and.... but when a scrub with full Purple / Blue Regina armor and a +6 purple 90 wep asks for +15 90 just cause even if they don't deserve it, that's bad >:I

    that's just my salty opinion tho O3O
  • ScarrletttScarrlettt
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    edited November 18, 2016
    TheDazzling

    RNG should be replaced with skill level :'3 that way everyone would have +8 70's and I a +15 90 >:3

    (jk, kinda +wink)
    I would have a bunch of +15 lvl 90s by that logic.

    (Jk. actually no im not)
    TheDazzling
  • GewelliriousGewellirious
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    Or remove RNG, let me get +15 then, put it back.

    :^)

    Also by that logic, I deserves already 10 +15s 90 too.
  • QueenOfManaQueenOfMana
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    edited November 18, 2016
    Removing RNG wouldn't be such a good idea because the feeling of self-accomplishment would be lost. Lv. 90 composite materials are in the Seal Shop and the Ancient Coin Event is on the way. What more could you ask? Does anyone recall the Anniversary Necklace that transformed ANY weapon that you had equipped into a +15 for 24 hrs? Why not add a similar item in the Exchange Shop using the Daily Mission Tickets?

    There needs to be an incentive for doing Daily Mission tasks other than the Everyday Hero title. So, why not add a Necklace that will transform an item into a +15 for 24 hrs? 15 tickets (sounds reasonable) for a 24 hr +15 would take about 2 weeks to collect.
    BloodAngel
  • pootismanpootisman
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    edited November 18, 2016
    Let's not over-value how powerful a +15 is for now.

    If you can reach 23k with a +10, you will likely be doing 23-24% in a S3 raid instead of 20% with a +15. With such tiny difference I'm ok with having +15 as rare as it is for now.

    The real issue comes when 27k att raid is released and NOT having a +13 or above will hinder you from achieving att cap, and having a full party of +15s is almost a mandatory to get the run done in a reasonable time. All of this just sounds wrong on so many levels.
  • AequipondiumAequipondium
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    Miracle
    Miracle said:


    you can technically brain dead farm gold to a point where you can buy a +15 weapon or whatever you want from someone else.
    Tfw you can't because you play in a dead server. +cry
    GewelliriousjjX
  • GewelliriousGewellirious
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    edited November 19, 2016
    pootisman
    pootisman said:

    If you can reach 23k with a +10, you will likely be doing 23-24% in a S3 raid instead of 20% with a +15.
    ????? (unless you meant 20% with a +10 and 23-24% with a +15)

    The additional damage still owns it.

    Hell, even +15 80 can actually be OP for some chars and no, not only XGun/Bow due to their 55+ Crit, everything above 40 can be more than enough, counting Scythes as well due to Crit boost from Fomorian Book.
    Listen, it's +15, there is seriously no need to go over 80+ SPD even with Scythe/Lynn/Delia to deal absurd DPS (not to mention perma IR = 21 SPD for free, enjoy), could easily sacrifice some speed for the sake of Crit cap.

    Too bad armory is down since a few days.

    EDIT

    This, is where you have to remove RNG.

    image
    image
    image

    Because it's straight up pathetic.
    DelterosPixelPantsuAqua22
  • NoburoNoburo
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    Resets are garbage, and with that upcoming change that makes lower level items reset at +9-10 instead of breaking, I would get more annoyed at failing those levels because of the amount of elixirs being wasted. At least on break you could just spend some ap and try again from where it was.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    Noburo
    Noburo said:

    Resets are garbage, and with that upcoming change that makes lower level items reset at +9-10 instead of breaking, I would get more annoyed at failing those levels because of the amount of elixirs being wasted. At least on break you could just spend some ap and try again from where it was.
    It's just kind of butt all the way around. 16K+ AP to restore a +8 90 item that boomed is quite annoying. Failing +9/+10 should at worst reset to +7. Even that would still be tedious, but it would be far better than the current system. It's like Nexon doesn't get it. These microtransaction games are cleaning up on mobile and PC because people want to pay for convenience, not to protect themselves from losing weeks or months of work. Vindi is going to continue being a harder and harder sell, and if Bless manages to get its revamped combat right or KUF2 ever gets itself together odds are I'm gone completely. I deal with enough possibility of failure in real life, and at least in general here months of work don't go down the drain due to RNG.

    TLDR: Vindi's system is archaic and dinosaurs will die. Get it together, and stop acting like you're a rookie company, Nexon.
    jjX
  • BloodAngelBloodAngel
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    To be honest, most of these comments I'm reading seem to be just lower enhances people are mad about... Did you guys forget we still have an event live where we can get enhance runes? We had one that ended at the beginning of this month from boxes. Yeah yeah, hate me because the box is RnG for getting the runes too. But everyone is complaining about the money they need to pay to protect their stuff well there's no money spent there. I think people just don't want to put the work in, or they don't want to. Some of you may attack me saying "I put in work but it blows up!" You realize we get events that help us all the time too? Lubbers quality and enhance RnG thing we got from Delia Attendance? You guys are quick to hate the game you play. If it gets too much for you take a day,week, month break cause Vindi probably isn't changing anytime soon.
  • pootismanpootisman
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    edited November 19, 2016
    Gewellirious

    pootisman
    pootisman said:

    If you can reach 23k with a +10, you will likely be doing 23-24% in a S3 raid instead of 20% with a +15.
    ????? (unless you meant 20% with a +10 and 23-24% with a +15)

    Yea that's what I mean. Extra ~5% in the end result screen from +10-+15 in a regular 10mins 8-people run is...really not much by any means. +15 can remain as a rare vintage item for this reason. The whole point of having a +15 for most people right now is

    1). Brag
    2). End-game objective so they can finally find a reason to stop playing the game
    3). People who want the best solo clear time (this does not apply to most of the playerbase)

    Getting to +10/+11 is a joke these days if you do Nexon events and buy runes when they go on sale. I'm ok with letting people have the gears to play the game and keep certain items rare, so they have goals to work towards. I'm not ok with 27k att cap boss that makes enhancing past +11 mandatory.
  • CessaCessa
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    To the people saying that making it too easy would make it so that you have nothing to work towards, consider the number of people that have left this game in droves because no matter how hard they work nothing improves.

    Working and seeing steady improvement to your gear as time passes.
    Working hard as hell and losing all your gear trying to improve or never getting an improvement at all because of RNG.

    Guess which one of those two we have and guess why players are literally disappearing and it's taking an hour if not longer to fill up a S2 or S3 boat, even during prime gaming time in the afternoon on the most populated server, East. Guess why the boat boards are empty. Guess why the market value of items are fluctuating as they are.
  • PrototypemindPrototypemind
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    BloodAngel

    To be honest, most of these comments I'm reading seem to be just lower enhances people are mad about... Did you guys forget we still have an event live where we can get enhance runes? We had one that ended at the beginning of this month from boxes. Yeah yeah, hate me because the box is RnG for getting the runes too. But everyone is complaining about the money they need to pay to protect their stuff well there's no money spent there. I think people just don't want to put the work in, or they don't want to. Some of you may attack me saying "I put in work but it blows up!" You realize we get events that help us all the time too? Lubbers quality and enhance RnG thing we got from Delia Attendance? You guys are quick to hate the game you play. If it gets too much for you take a day,week, month break cause Vindi probably isn't changing anytime soon.
    All the time? The events we get are lesser both in frequency and level of rewards in comparison to Korea and China. If we got all that they did I'm sure there would be far less complaining. There would still be some, however, because our system sucks. Again, even TERA is brutal, but only mats are lost on failure, not your entire means of playing the game.