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Attention all Bow Kais (aggro issues)

YagaminYagamin
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edited February 19 in General Discussion
With the increase of Bow Kais thanks to the buff, some raids have become very annoying to do. Mainly Bear RAR, Blood Lord and Zecallion.

In Bear RAR, please stand near the wall, not in the middle of the map. Standing in the middle makes the bear pounce around the whole map so everyone else has to waste time chasing him, making the raid slow.

Blood Lord and Zecallion both have an attack which targets players who stand far. So if you stand far, you will be attacked more often and others will need to find and chase the boss. There is a range where you can be close enough to not trigger that attack, while still being far enough to not get hit.

Being closer also has another perk which I only seen about 3 Kais do, you can dodge forward and pass aggro off to others quickly before continuing to attack.
If you are far, you usually need to continue to dodge a few more times since you retain aggro for some time, while the other party members need to chase you around the map. This is worse if you decide to dodge backwards continuously.

The only places where you should shoot far is in Dullahan to pull the boss far away from the middle, in Macha to pull the boss back towards the middle prior to breaking any seals, and in Regina to pull her towards the light grass.
2edgy4u
  1. Which Kai are you?27 votes
    1. I shoot far; it's the only way for me to get girls to chase me.
       19% (5 votes)
    2. I shoot mid/close range because of those reasons above.
       30% (8 votes)
    3. I don't shoot, I'm a melee Kai / I don't main Kai
       19% (5 votes)
    4. Delete Kai / I don't play Kai any more
       33% (9 votes)

Comments

  • CedricCedric
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    Agreed, it can be annoying but telling to ppl how to play their class seems rather selfish.
    BownerDaimus
  • LoLoBootyLoLoBooty
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    Poll needs a new option: I am a completely erratic Kai who weaves in and out of different ranges. Being that I am one of the "new Kai's" I will try to follow the above tips for Bear.
  • AngelYukkiAngelYukki
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    edited February 11
    Cedric wrote: »
    Agreed, it can be annoying but telling to ppl how to play their class seems rather selfish.

    Knowing that you can improve your own playstyle while improving quality of gameplay of other players and not doing it is also selfish.
    Aslai
  • CloakshireCloakshire
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    Don't forget Arcana. It seems that if she targets a far away Kai, she's more likely to do her repeated AoE spam.

    I picked up Kai sometime late last year. I already knew about sticking close to bosses like Zecallion. I wasn't aware of Arcana until it seemed like she'd spam her AoE move way more often than when I ran on Lann/Hurk. Someone politely asked me to close the distance a bit and upon doing so, she stopped spamming her aoe.
    YagaminAvan
  • SefSef
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    edited February 12
    Good post, OP, all I would add to it is including other hyper mobile classes because it's not just a kai issue.
    FOR EXAMPLE SCYTHE EVIES ARE PARTICULARLY GUILTY OF THIS AS WELL. DESPITE BEING A MELEE CHARACTER THEY SEEM TO HAVE INCREDIBLY HIGH AGGRO so IF THEY'RE NOT MAKING THE BOSS RUN A MARATHON AFTER THEM BLINKING all over THE PLACE THEY'RE BLINDING TEAMMATES WITH SACRIFICE AND VOID STAR AND SLIDING BOSSES ALL OVER THE PLACE WITH BLOODY THREAD MAKING ME MISS MY BLAZING SPINES. THAT MOVE ISN'T CHEAP YOU KNOW.[B/]

    We need to make more people that play disruptive classes aware of what they're doing so they can improve their own and everyone else's gameplay experience.

    After all this is a team game right?

  • YagaminYagamin
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    edited February 12
    Cloakshire wrote: »
    Don't forget Arcana. It seems that if she targets a far away Kai, she's more likely to do her repeated AoE spam.
    .

    That's interesting, I never noticed it either.
    Sef wrote: »
    Good post, OP, all I would add to it is including other hyper mobile classes because it's not just a kai issue.
    FOR EXAMPLE SCYTHE EVIES ARE PARTICULARLY GUILTY OF THIS AS WELL. DESPITE BEING A MELEE CHARACTER THEY SEEM TO HAVE INCREDIBLY HIGH AGGRO so IF THEY'RE NOT MAKING THE BOSS RUN A MARATHON AFTER THEM BLINKING all over THE PLACE THEY'RE BLINDING TEAMMATES WITH SACRIFICE AND VOID STAR AND SLIDING BOSSES ALL OVER THE PLACE WITH BLOODY THREAD MAKING ME MISS MY BLAZING SPINES. THAT MOVE ISN'T CHEAP YOU KNOW.[B/]

    We need to make more people that play disruptive classes aware of what they're doing so they can improve their own and everyone else's gameplay experience.

    After all this is a team game right?

    For Void Star, you can go into Options > Video > Custom > Effects - Others, and move it down low, or you can just turn it off.
    I have it low so I can see that they're there, but won't really distract me, for example so I can see Arisha's Resonance and keep the boss in range of it.
    Void Star is a part of scythe DPS combo, so you can't really expect them not to use it.

    Bloody Thread should only move things if there are multiple things threaded together, and it pulls things together which makes it easier for you to hit multiple boss at once for more damage. Makes Spider RAR really fast.
  • SatsueSatsue
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    edited February 12
    All those moves are part of Scythe DPS rotation, so we can't really not use them, sadly. Just do what Yagamin suggested and change other player effects, cus that's all you can really do.

    (Or hope with me for a scythe revamp soon pls)
  • IntoHellIntoHell
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    Thanks for the tips! I love Kais
  • SefSef
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    edited February 13
    Yagamin wrote: »
    Cloakshire wrote: »
    Don't forget Arcana. It seems that if she targets a far away Kai, she's more likely to do her repeated AoE spam.
    .

    That's interesting, I never noticed it either.

    For Void Star, you can go into Options > Video > Custom > Effects - Others, and move it down low, or you can just turn it off.
    I have it low so I can see that they're there, but won't really distract me, for example so I can see Arisha's Resonance and keep the boss in range of it.
    Void Star is a part of scythe DPS combo, so you can't really expect them not to use it.

    Bloody Thread should only move things if there are multiple things threaded together, and it pulls things together which makes it easier for you to hit multiple boss at once for more damage. Makes Spider RAR really fast.
    Satsue wrote: »
    All those moves are part of Scythe DPS rotation, so we can't really not use them, sadly. Just do what Yagamin suggested and change other player effects, cus that's all you can really do.

    (Or hope with me for a scythe revamp soon pls)

    Unfortunately it doesn't fully work. The ending explosions for both moves show up no matter what. You're right that Void Star isn't as bad; Sacrifice is definitely the worst offender and usually it's not very problematic, but against smaller, humanoid bosses like Macha, Neam and Balor it has lead to some really close calls for me.

    Bloody Thread moving stuff around can definitely be helpful in royal Spiders but it seems to apply more or not at all depending on the boss. For example Neam, Zecallion and Ingkells (In Onslaught) get pulled around a LOT. Balor as well in some of his combos.
    Sylas also does the same with his phantom daggers.

    But don't get me wrong I'm not that mad about it, despite the all caps spoiler haha. Fault of the devs not the players and usually it doesn't present as big a problem. :)
  • Arrow95Arrow95
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    lol ok then, kai as always gotten hate why would I make your raid playing experience a little better by cutting my damage in half.
    Would it be fair for me to say miris cant spin or grimdens cant back hit because it can make bosses like redeemers do a 180, classes play how they play adapt to your situation you cant control other people :shrug:
  • AngelYukkiAngelYukki
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    Arrow95 wrote: »
    lol ok then, kai as always gotten hate why would I make your raid playing experience a little better by cutting my damage in half.
    Would it be fair for me to say miris cant spin or grimdens cant back hit because it can make bosses like redeemers do a 180, classes play how they play adapt to your situation you cant control other people :shrug:

    because you dont need to be 50 miles away to do damage. your damage is not going to be cut in half by being slightly closer + near the wall.
    Yagamin wrote: »
    There is a range where you can be close enough to not trigger that attack, while still being far enough to not get hit.
  • Arrow95Arrow95
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    Thanks kai master!, and yeah if your gonna be sacrificing distance and trying to continue keeping that distance you will be or even more, playing kai and playing kai optimal are very different things, hard to believe kai takes skill I know, just the way things are besides why should I lower my performance for your convenience. @AngelYukki
  • AngelYukkiAngelYukki
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    edited February 13
    Arrow95 wrote: »
    Thanks kai master!, and yeah if your gonna be sacrificing distance and trying to continue keeping that distance you will be or even more, playing kai and playing kai optimal are very different things, hard to believe kai takes skill I know, just the way things are besides why should I lower my performance for your convenience. @AngelYukki

    pls enlighten me on how being at the wall will lower your dps.
    also are you gonna seriously tell me about how playing kai takes skill when you use macros lmfao
  • Arrow95Arrow95
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    said all i wanted to say on the topic, explaining in a whole post or multiple posts how it would and by the end you still would have the same opinion would be pointless.
    Twln
  • PiamettePiamette
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    Please explain, I would like to know since it could help me out on my gameplay.
  • OkayyyOkayyy
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    @Arrow95

    All u said on the topic was basically "stfu I play how I want" which pretty much exemplifies why people hate kais.
  • YagaminYagamin
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    edited February 14
    I used to main Kai, still use him in RAR. By playing that way, I don't really lose damage when it's dps/min, and I get aggro to draw the boss towards me about the same amount of time, being able to pass aggro off faster is nice, but it's not as effective for "damage" as well...

    Basically, making others lose damage makes the raids slower, thus gives Kais more time to attack, thus more damage for Kai.

    I also lose damage if stand near the wall in bear, while some other Kai stands in the middle to make the bear get out of my range. If no one is in the middle, it's basically the same for me.
  • CedricCedric
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    Okayyy wrote: »
    @Arrow95

    All u said on the topic was basically "stfu I play how I want" which pretty much exemplifies why people hate kais.

    Everyone play his class as he enjoy and want, there are noob hurks who cant deflect a single time or evies who never heal but i dont see threads made about that.
    Bosses are sandbags and easily overkilled anyway... To place a single class in the hate club because is not played as others would like seems quite selfish as i said.
  • Arrow95Arrow95
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    edited April 6
    Okayyy wrote: »
    @Arrow95

    All u said on the topic was basically "stfu I play how I want" which pretty much exemplifies why people hate kais.

    Then you didn't read what I said then, let me spit it out then, why should you have the right to control/tell me what I can and cannot do? I wouldn't dare to do that to other classes and bow isn't the only aggro class.
    what's the big deal anyway its Rar its over in 2mins or less besides bow cant play long range optimally, if it isn't rar why should I play face to face with bosses should I give up my survival just for you? bow as a class doesn't and cant optimally play like that.

    If you play short distince bow kai say good bye to proc'ing hunter eye marks and headshots, that wont affect your damage? how about your main dps skill mag+rico combo need time to charge it up only way would to face tank and not everyone as my 23k def and even if you facetank if your hit after mag rip your ricoshet shot.
    For you i should just accept it to play close just for you? my main dps combo only working 1/2 efficiency if i facetank sometimes and dont worry about my multplyers (hunter eye 1.80) (headshot 1.65). yeah it for sure affects your damage output even then you really think bow can survive face to face with his subpar dodge?
  • JinyieJinyie
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    Hurks deflects aren't always a good thing *cries as sword vella*